Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Any VP failure reported after FASS/Preporator Installation??

[Hohn]

I am just curious if anyone has heard of a single VP44 failure after the installation of a FASS or Preporator. Anyone?



I theorize (there I go again) that they air removal increases the lubricity of the fuel going to the VP, thus reducing the instances of failure.



Also, the high volume flow ensures that solid Pressure is being fed to the pump at all times.



Thanks,

Justin

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The "catch" here, just as with Carter pusher pumps, is that health of the VP-44 MIGHT be greatly affected by low PSI or outright failure of a stock LP at some point BEFORE any of the aftermarket stuff was installed...

 

[Hohn]

true... but many pumps survive for a while, albeit in a weakened state.



jlh

 

[GiesJ]

I am interested in this as well - My 5th (yes 5) VP44 will go in at the end of the month. I wasn't running hard and had good pressure at the time of death. I fear I have lost all faith in the truck to get me anywhere. This will be the 1st pump $ out of my pocket so it could be worse but damn - 5!

J

 

[bmoeller]

Originally posted by GiesJ

it could be worse but damn - 5!

J

Sounds like you need a P-pump conversion on that one. 5? Ouch. How many miles average on the pumps?

 

[c-hawk]

My VP is failing

Like Gary suggested above, i am fairly certain that my failing vp is due to the fact that i damaged it before i had the fass. Weak lift pump was an understatement, and 0psi at full throttle was the result. oh well, what's funny is at the time, i thought i was saving money by not buying a fuel pressure gauge.



I have never seen my fuel pressure drop more than 2psi since i've had the fass system on. It's been great. 17psi idle, 15 WOT.



Chris

 

[02diesel]

Hey c-hawk, Any chance you could post a couple of pictures of your installed FASS system. My truck is very similar to yours and I would like to see how it mounts on the SWB quad cab.



Thanks

Frank

 

[zachv]

BTT. Let's keep this up at the top. I am in the same boat with the VP dying and I will have to have the dealer warranty it, but I want to see if the FASS system is smart to do when the new VP is installed.

 

[78repowerwagon]

I know of two vp failures with the fass. One had the Fass on when the new vp was installed, the other was run with a PE for some time before the new VP was installed.



I have a preporator on mine, installed at 225,000 miles. I am still on my original VP, so if it goes out I may want to blame the preporator.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Originally posted by GiesJ

I am interested in this as well - My 5th (yes 5) VP44 J

WOW J I dunno ... . the chances of having 5 Vp's go bad back to back in anything UNDER even 250,000 miles seems odd J. I would start to look elsewhere for the ROOT cause. That means it sugars down to 1 0ut of every 2 pumps ever made are junk which would show thousands of rams on the side of the road 5 times over. I remember (Gary?) or someone making a post a while back on some VP44's being changed needlessly when they are in fact FINE. There seemed to be something found in the VP's control wiring that was bad or something like that and then the subject of bypasses came up and blah blah. I will do some digging.



<hr>



Hohn I hear ya. I still am watching this whole deal as I am curious. Granted Running a P. E for 2 allmost 3 years feeds the vp nicely I am allways looking for durable improvements. As for Air I still to this day am not gettig how enough air gets into the system in the first place as the standpipe in in the bottom of the tank and bubles should be nonexistent. Heck I invite air as I can't get enough into the combustion chamber as it is via turbo alone so I gotta sneak it in somehow LOL!

 

[mhenon]

Multiple Pump failures?

There just has to be something wrong upstream of the pump when you have this many failures. The VP44 pump isn't "all" that bad. Some of the marine applications don't even use a lift or supply pump with the Cummins/VP44.

I'm real suspicious of that little screen in the fuel tank. You can't look at it or change it out occasionally. If that screen is plugged, just a little, it could be the cause of all those pump failures. You would have no way of knowing.

So far no problems with either my lift pump or VP44. I'll bet though that the fisrt tank full of crummy fuel and the problems will begin.

I'd really like to get that screen outta there and install an in-line filter that can be checked and changed out. I think this is where "some" of these multiple failures stem from.



Mike

 

[Chipstien]

Re: Multiple Pump failures?

Originally posted by mhenon

There just has to be something wrong upstream of the pump when you have this many failures. The VP44 pump isn't "all" that bad. Some of the marine applications don't even use a lift or supply pump with the Cummins/VP44.

I'm real suspicious of that little screen in the fuel tank. You can't look at it or change it out occasionally. If that screen is plugged, just a little, it could be the cause of all those pump failures. You would have no way of knowing.

So far no problems with either my lift pump or VP44. I'll bet though that the fisrt tank full of crummy fuel and the problems will begin.

I'd really like to get that screen outta there and install an in-line filter that can be checked and changed out. I think this is where "some" of these multiple failures stem from.



Mike

My thoughts exactly... ... .

 

[Hohn]

Could be.



J, I think it might be worth the hassle to drop your tank and do a thorough look-see at what's inside. You might find something that's killing your VPs!



I know you run a Comp and DD1s, but what have you done for fuel delivery? Do you still have the stock banjos/lp/etc. ? I thought you had the Ray's banjos, but I could be hallucinating.



FYI, With an EZ and DD2s, I could easily pull my lp down to 3psi at WOT.



Before Max flow: 15psi idle, 12psi cruise, 3psi WOT

After max flow: 17psi idle, 14psi cruise, 10psi WOT



This is all on my original LP.



So far, so good.



JLH

 

[Ncostello]

Its going to take 100,000 miles of great fuel pressure and no failures to say the Preporator solves the problem. Good thing is however is that they have a good track record on Class 8 rigs. I just moved my single OEM pump. For over a year its been super. But then again many folks do nothing and never have trouble. So if I wait for 50,000 miles and all of a sudden I have a failure... what do I do? Try something else or say my pump was a fluke and install a new one in its place? Its tough cause results take very long to get. And if I go 500,000 without a problem... well that will take so long by then nobody will still be driving ISB's and wont care anymore.



I pulled my bed and took the fuel module out. I then cut the filter fabric out. (See readers rig gallery ncostello). Mine was OK clean after 80,000. But I still yanked it out. From looking closely at its design... I believe the filter fabric does more than just screen the fuel. The module is like a holding tank that has a constant inflow from the return. The filter fabric is part of an assembly that forms a "chamber" of sorts around the pick up. If your at 1/8 tank say... and you are sloshing fuel real bad, the fuel from the reservoir floods the mesh chamber (which involves some check valves) keeping the pickup surrounded by diesel. If the mesh was not there the reservoir fuel would flow right past the pickup and into the tank. Fuel kinda bleeds or backflows through this very fine screen at a controlled pace. At least I think this is what Dodge had in mind to keep it from sucking air in severe sloshing conditions. At least in theory by the time the reservoir flow runs out your fuel would have returned to normal conditions.



If you remove it fear not however. Even at 1/8 tank I cannot get fuel to run away from the pickup and I've tried. Its almost impossible to get the fuel completely away from the pickup unless you hit a brick wall and it all slams into the front of the tank. Even thats only for an instant I suppose. It would take a very severe angle of departure/approach to leave the pickup point dry.

 

[Desert Proven]

Is there anyone WITH A STOCK TRUCK, that has had a lift pump, or VP go bad, with or without FASS/PREPORATOR? If so, at what mileage.



I've heard that the 01 and O2 are not as succeptible to LP and VP failures as were other models.



thanks

 

[Hohn]

I've heard the same thing, but it's hard to get anything but anecdotal evidence.



Justin

 

[Mad Bomber]

LP

Originally posted by Marek





I've heard that the 01 and O2 are not as succeptible to LP and VP failures as were other models.



thanks

That's not true there were alot of LP failuer on 01 they had a bad batch of them. BTW my 1st LP failed at 36. 6K

 

[Desert Proven]

Madbomber,



Did your LP fail before your bombs, or after?



I'm just trying to get an understanding of how reliable the LP and VP can be when on a stock truck.



thanks

 

[GiesJ]

Originally posted by bmoeller

5? Ouch. How many miles average on the pumps?

Central Motive Power will be putting in #5 next week. I have had the truck since 26,000 miles and now have ~97,000. I have had a fuel pressure gage since the first replacement went in. That time I was able to limp home from Ft. Collins, CO. That pump went when I was about 80 miles from New Mexico and the whole truck shut down and would not start up again. #3 went in and the dealer did a horse **** job of checking what they did. The pump they put in apparently was missing some internal O Ring from the rebuild and was leaking diesel everywhere. #4 Went on me on E-470 in Colorado crusin at about 65.



Of my failures - the last one is the only one with the wire tapped (COMP was on 2/2 at the time. ) Central motive power told me over the phone they'll be able to give a post-mortem on my pump once they begin to rebuild it. Vena (very very knowledgeable) said that it is very rare for the pump failure to be related to the COMP, but we'll know for sure in a few weeks. She also said that they do something special with the overflow valve in the rebuild that is supposed to help.



I have no problem with the 'I am my own warranty station' but what is bs is that I have a truck that has a considerable amount of my time, energy and money in it and even after this new pump goes in, I'll have little faith in – I’ll always be thinking - when is she going to crap out on me again...

Sorry for the long post, I'm afraid I might have to get rid of my ride.



Thanks for everyone’s help. Hohn, we should talk off line sometime.



In any event, I would be interested in understanding how much better the FASS would help this. Right now I am thinking – get her fixed and start trying to sell and either get a 12er or a common rail.

Jason



PS – I’ve been pretty careful about my fuel pressure and have never run her down below 6 at ANY since the COMP has gone in.

 

[zachv]

Originally posted by Marek

Is there anyone WITH A STOCK TRUCK, that has had a lift pump, or VP go bad, with or without FASS/PREPORATOR? If so, at what mileage.



I've heard that the 01 and O2 are not as succeptible to LP and VP failures as were other models.



thanks

I have an Edge EZ, but I installed it at 54K and the LP and VP44 have been giving me problems since about 51K. I had the truck in to the dealer last week and they replaced the LP under warranty. I told them that would not fix it, but the techs five minute test drive did not reproduce the "dead pedal" symptom of the VP dying. I will take it back next week and force the dude to go on a longer drive, with me in the truck, to show him the problem.