Anybody read/see a direct comparsion to 3/4 -1 ton diesels to the new 7.3 Ford gasser?

[JPM]

Anybody read/see a direct comparsion to 3/4 -1 ton diesels to the new 7.3 Ford gasser? They have superchargers available for them too. The only thing I see as negative is fuel economy and heat buildup with a supercharger. Maybe less power.

 

[DonFitzwater]

If you need to supercharge a big V8 to get diesel like power, just get the turbo diesel to start with. I do know one gent with the 7.3 in a work truck and he likes the power but hates the Ford transmission. He had a Ram with the 6.4 previously.

 

[Cummins12V98]

The ford gasser got SMOKED by the Diesel trucks on a TFL drag race.

 

[slowmover]

Need a plan:

How many years?

How many miles?

Cost difference at new

Actual work truck (bed carries 1k or more all the time?) or dinky-dick softball daddy.

A pickup is a waste of money for most folks. It’s all about the feelz.

Turbo diesel doesn’t come close to being cost-effective compared to modern 10-Auto big block gassers until the trailer always in use weighs 15k or greater.

Nearly every problem related in these pages comes from failed to work the truck to design spec. Same problem in Class 8 where too much motor in size and output was ruining operators. Try, “percent empty miles”, and “percent engine load average” .

Idle hours versus total miles another.

It’s a work vehicle or you’re just fooling yourself.

Gasoline is back on the throne as king what with 10-Auto.

The diesel run lasted about ten years (ended 2007), . . wake up. Fuel price + complexity does not pay for Joe Sixpack. The sweet spot disappeared.


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[Tuesdak]

The ford gasser got SMOKED by the Diesel trucks on a TFL drag race.

There is a Hemi 3500 longbed like my truck around here. It's even the same color. Unloaded from a light, even with a grade, it's doorhandles with the HO Cummins.

@slowmover is correct: the "savings" for diesel engines are gone. 1/2 ton gassers get the same or better MPG than my 2018. Diesel is the same cost. (been a few days it was less in the past two years.) But two batteries, fuel filters, 3x the engine oil, long term: injectors ...

Gas 1/2 tons are good for 250K before the entire pickup is shot in oilfield fleet use. The engines with few exceptions made it that far. Other than Cummins you are hard pressed to get another OEM Diesel to go beyond that distance without major repair cost pain. Injectors are not likely going to go that distance from past history in any Diesel. Transmissions are more likely to go out with Diesel torque. The extreme cost emissions equipment for Diesels hit after we retired from managing the fleet.

This doesn't take into account "reduction of vehicles in the driveway." I own one vehicle that has to do everything asked. I don't want to listen to a Hemi Scream up the long grades towing. So in this case "one" Diesel is cheaper than two vehicles: like a Daily Driver or Motorhome. Less cost, insurance, plates/taxes, and maintenance for a 2nd vehicle.

I have said before MPG a "Coffin on wheels" gets does not interest me.

Diesel in 2500/3500's is becoming a "rounding error" as a $10,000 Diesel engine option cost is becoming less than the taxes paid on a near $100,000 pickup.

Having looked at the cost of 2500 Vans gas/Diesel being way cheaper...

 

[avvblanc01]

I drive both frequently for work. The 7.3 Fords are cool, but I could never understand owning one. The fuel costs are absolutely absurd compared to a diesel, and they have less torque and power behind the wheel. Some people swear by them, but I could NEVER justify getting one when there are more capable and fuel efficient diesel trucks on the market.

 

[Tuesdak]

The fuel costs are absolutely absurd compared to a diesel,

Can you provide more detail like the 7.3's MPG and use (loaded, towing, etc.)? What capability is it lacking in it's current use? We are all ears when a Diesel comes out ahead in TCO!

 

[avvblanc01]

Can you provide more detail like the 7.3's MPG and use (loaded, towing, etc.)? What capability is it lacking in it's current use? We are all ears when a Diesel comes out ahead in TCO!

I have no issues pulling 20mpg highway in the 19+ Ram and Ford diesel powertrain trucks on 37s, but when you take the 7.3 Fords in the same situation, you’re fighting to get low teens. 7.3 liters of nattily aspirated gas engine makes for a hungry beast! I understand the application for fleet usage etc, but assuming the truck is being used like a typical truck (highway runs and towing) a diesel just makes so much more sense to me.

 

[BarryG]

Slowmover and Tuesdak bring up good points. I am one of those that while I need a truck and at least for now and the previous 20 years need more than a 1/2 ton to get done what I need to do. My 01 CTD would get 20 mpg all day long empty and sometimes up to 22. Loaded it would get the typical 12-15 depending on which trailer was being used. My 17 does not get but 17 or 18 unloaded, though about the same loaded.

Diesel fuel has gone from being 10-20 cents cheaper per gallon in the early to mid 2000's to being more than gas to at least right now is a bit cheaper. I remember doing the math when I bought my 01 to calc out the diesel fuel savings compared to gas and it worked out to be right about 100k miles to pay for the upcharge on the diesel engine. Well the 01 now has right about 375k miles on it now so that one worked out well and has paid for itself several times over. However all the emissions equipment, and other items that have cut into the diesel fuel mileage, def costs, difference between gas and diesel fuel costs as well as the difference in the diesel engine uprate cost (I think in 01 it was about a 5k option compared to over $9k or $12k depending on which engine) are much slimmer it certainly doesn't calc out nearly as well as it used too on my 17. I did not do the math on it, didn't want to know it was I just wanted a diesel again too used to the mountain driving experience. I have a 22 on order right now to replace the 17 and I got diesel again but it may very well be last one. Hopefully will be retired and haven't racked up too many miles on it and when that time comes who knows where electric, gas or diesel will be. I have no issue with electric as long as it can do what I need it to do, currently they do not but they will at some point. In any cae I ahve already been contemplating what to do then and I do not think diesel will be in the picture unless something dramatic changes with them. If I need one that's fine but at that point I don't think I will need a 3500 and all the grunt that goes with diesel but time will tell.

 

[AnonEd]

I have not seen the test yet...maybe Ford doesn't have the trucks available because one of them is gonna finish second?

I've seen people take a Godzilla to 1450hp/1030tq on race fuel, or in the 900s on E85, but all those changes likely cost more than the diesel option, rev higher and MAY affect your warranty? Unless I was a low-miles driver not pulling a lot, fleet buyer or needed the max payload of a 7.3, diesel sounds smarter than a hopped up Godzilla.

 

[Wiredawg]

We have a 2019 Ram 1500 4x4 and 2017 Ram 5500 4x4 (see details in sig) and like both. We mostly use the 1500 like a car, sometime go shopping, etc..., and now my 5500 is my daily driver. I traded the 21Klb MS 5er for a MH, pretty much eliminating the need to keep the 5500. The dealer I purchased the 5500 even sent me email to buy back the 5500, but I didn't respond because I decided I wanted to keep the 5500.

Sometimes it's not about TCO, balance sheets, ROI, etc... It's what you want. I get the comparison and its good for folks that it matters to, but for me I'll keep the diesel. Between infrequent towing of my trailers, I like the feel and manage to keep burning particulate running 46 miles each way doing 80 MPH. I have it tuned as well, adding more fun. Almost everyone who sees my 5500, even Ford and Chevy owners compliment it. Cool is cool.

Good info, I read it all, and a lot of it makes sense, just the want sometimes exceeds the need.

Cheers, Ron

 

[JPM]

I have no issues pulling 20mpg highway in the 19+ Ram and Ford diesel powertrain trucks on 37s, but when you take the 7.3 Fords in the same situation, you’re fighting to get low teens. 7.3 liters of nattily aspirated gas engine makes for a hungry beast! I understand the application for fleet usage etc, but assuming the truck is being used like a typical truck (highway runs and towing) a diesel just makes so much more sense to me.

I never got 20 mpgs out of my 1993, 2003 or 2017 cummins SRW 4X4 trucks, driving non commercial, normal use .And now the 17 is so needy, the diesel fuel is so iffy( bio **** and who knows) If I had to do it again I would look at gasoline . Love the diesel torque it never gets old....
If ram came out with a heavy duty big block turbo gasser ( had a 1999 V10 pooch ) I might like it, can they reproduce the exhaust brake on it ?

 

[JPM]

Plus the greenoment has drove diesel fuel less and less viable, you might grab the gasoline powered vehicles quick before they start directing battery onlys.

 

[HVAC2]

Mountains, altitude, 8500lb is the task daily. Or it sits in a garage. For me the Exhaust brake is the line in the sand. Passing on passes? Priceless.

Life is short. Get what you need.

 

[lpennock]

If ram came out with a heavy duty big block turbo gasser ( had a 1999 V10 pooch ) I might like it, can they reproduce the exhaust brake on it ?

In theory the throttle plates on a gasser do the same as the exhaust brake. Diesel needs an exhaust brake because the intake has no restriction. I said in theory because they could fubar the programming to keep the throttle plates from fully closing in the name of increasing MPG as it would allow for more coasting rather than braking.

 

[DonFitzwater]

In theory the throttle plates on a gasser do the same as the exhaust brake. Diesel needs an exhaust brake because the intake has no restriction. I said in theory because they could fubar the programming to keep the throttle plates from fully closing in the name of increasing MPG as it would allow for more coasting rather than braking.

The real problem is the gas engine has nowhere close to the amount of engine braking capability of the diesel engine.

 

[bcbender]

I have no issue with electric as long as it can do what I need it to do, currently they do not but they will at some point.

hahahah..... Not anytime soon... No elec truck is going to pull my 5er 65mph up hills, pass slow pokes, and do it for 24h a day with 20min fillups.. period.

Sometimes it's not about TCO, balance sheets, ROI, etc... It's what you want.

Spot on Ron!... I had a 460FI ford F350.. plenty capable including drinking gas, No way I would have a gas 1 ton truck.. I would sell my toys and buy a 1500 if it came to it. The gas trucks are ok Im sure for the weekend warrior or someone who is shopping with cost as the only consideration but not for me.

 

[GrantP]

I think the 7.3 gasser would have been competitive against the diesels if it had been introduced 20 years ago. That said I'm glad ford developed it, if I were to buy a gas truck that would be it.

 

[slowmover]

Mountains, altitude, 8500lb is the task daily. Or it sits in a garage. For me the Exhaust brake is the line in the sand. Passing on passes? Priceless.

Life is short. Get what you need.

Trailer needs to be above 10k before an exhaust/engine brake is an effective purchase. The problem until then (and after) is the lack of ANTILOCK trailer disc brakes. It also assumes the operator knows what he is doing: In a grade descent, towing a travel trailer, with the need in an emergency to simultaneously slam the throttle wide-open while simultaneously locking the trailer brakes to bring sway under control:

— How much space between you and the vehicle ahead of you is required?

— Against a big truck posted down-grade speed recommendation, how far below that should you travel?

— What gear, and with how much rpm headspace?

Crosswinds are what turn over RV combined rigs and no other stretch of road is as dangerous to control as a mountain descent. (Statistically one has less than three seconds to correct the problem. Straight axle trucks and leaf sprung box-shaped trailers with drums are worst. 5’ers not exempted. “Too late” before the driver recognized the problem via feedback).

An exhaust or engine brake is of no help on a downgrade for the morons who run against it thinking it adds “safety”. Does the truck automatically apply a higher percentage of application force to the trailer brakes when the the EB is in use? (No; the trailer is already trying to get out and pass).

Gassers have always been better at descents. Always will be. Dummies who have no clue how to plan a descent in a diesel truck AND have unacceptable trailer brakes are the likeliest to suffer loss-of-control with adverse winds (mountain pass gusts and/or big trucks roaring past illegally).

These aren’t “accidents”. They’re failures of known high risks.

No less different than “passing” on an ascent. It’s the rare light duty pickup can’t maintain headway better than a genuinely heavy big truck. But it’s both stupid & selfish to NOT maintain maximum vehicle separation, upgrade or downgrade. Screws up the road for everyone else. (Can’t see the validity of this as lacks the visuo-spatial relationship skills required to apportion what others need). Nothing says STOOPID as loudly as causing a jam-up on an ascent or descent (his rig too close to those behind or ahead; talking HUNDREDS of foot minimums needed by everyone).

That big truck he just passed going up is now directly behind him while going down. (Danny Dumbass).

One works WITH everyone else to the best degree (RV can almost always out-pull or out-brake a big truck), so figure out the flow and work with it.

Q: Has one ever passed traffic on an ascent at 15-mph higher than their speed? (Pretty much, “case closed”).

— One ascends in a gear in which he can still accelerate (road speed not really relevant), and one also ascends keeping engine load below 80%.

It’s not the truck, it’s the operator. Every time. High cylinder pressure doesn’t convey magical powers. Knows the driving risks and doesn’t deviate from best practice is what matters.

Passing on the upslope and riding the EB on the downslope is therefore the Dunce Cap Award for Likeliest to Cause an Accident. (Chain reactions).

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[slowmover]

We have a 2019 Ram 1500 4x4 and 2017 Ram 5500 4x4 (see details in sig) and like both. We mostly use the 1500 like a car, sometime go shopping, etc..., and now my 5500 is my daily driver. I traded the 21Klb MS 5er for a MH, pretty much eliminating the need to keep the 5500. The dealer I purchased the 5500 even sent me email to buy back the 5500, but I didn't respond because I decided I wanted to keep the 5500.

Sometimes it's not about TCO, balance sheets, ROI, etc... It's what you want. I get the comparison and its good for folks that it matters to, but for me I'll keep the diesel. Between infrequent towing of my trailers, I like the feel and manage to keep burning particulate running 46 miles each way doing 80 MPH. I have it tuned as well, adding more fun. Almost everyone who sees my 5500, even Ford and Chevy owners compliment it. Cool is cool.

Good info, I read it all, and a lot of it makes sense, just the want sometimes exceeds the need.

Cheers, Ron

A farm truck. Right.

How many feet in distance required to come to a controlled emergency stop from 80-mph?

You’ve tested it, right?

— Also, you ever in the Interstate passing lane with traffic barely ahead and directly behind you while “passing”?

—Act as though “overtaking” is “passing” by remaining in the passing lane after a pass is safely completed? Illegally use the passing lane for travel? (“Gee, there’s slow guys up ahead”).

— Thereby implicitly blocking access to the passing lane for those who have right-of-way? (Only the travel lane has ROW).

Those who screw things up for everyone else (too high a speed for vehicle design; failure to adjust speed to conditions; tailgating; and blocking ROW) shouldn’t be surprised it someday doesn’t work out.

I’ve been hit three times this past year by the type. Minor. Took a sheriffs deputy or DPS to explain to the stoopids how the road works. Right-of-Way.

The day I have some SWIFT driver comes off the shoulder at the wrong moment (happens more regularly now) the vehicle illegally in the passing lane is the one who’ll have to do emergency braking.

He doesn’t care he ever gets home.
This Kenworth and I will .


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