Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Anyone running JET A for a long time?

[raf2000]

I have access to FREE JET A fuel from a friend who has to bleed a few gals each day per FAA regs. We strain/check it for water (he throws out the first bit that has water in it) We store it in a 250 gal tank, run tractors, diesel mowers, etc with it. I understand the lack of lube so been adding 32 OZ of Marvel to each tank. First tank I mixed about 55% JET A and 45% Diesel #2. Truck started stalling ONLY when cold shifting into reverse or drive. Next tank is about 90% or more JET A and another 32 oz of Marvel. Only done this twice so far. Driving 700 miles tomorrow, not sure of fuel economy or power differences. Seems about the same. Kinda worried about frying a VP44 though. Just changed lift pump the same day I tried the JET A. Had things apart and just about to hit 200K miles so I swapped in a new lift pump when I changed the oil pressure sending unit. Just wondering if there are any JET A or alternative fuel specialists out there running other that #2 for a long time WITHOUT any problems. .

 

[heliopilot]

I've run Jet fuel in my 24v since almost day 1. dont waste the money on marvel mystery oil. Use waste motor oil instead. 40/60 spilt if you dont add wmo. Note >>> there is less energy in jet A than diesel . . but it's free :-laf

 

[raf2000]

Very interesting. How many miles now? How much waste oil do you use for 34 gals? I have read tonight 5%. 5% of 34 gallons is 1. 7 gallons which seems like a bunch. I have the marvel right now so what would you suggest for this tank? Marvel says 4oz per 10 gals but that is in diesel. I will be out of town for 10 days and back on #2. I also read about the energy diff but it is very slight difference?

 

[Supermod56]

Over here in the war zone we use JP-8 in all the diesels, Detroits, Cat's, Cummins, Toyota's, HumVee's, etc. etc. They all run good, we put additives in every tank to lube the pumps.



Tom

 

[raf2000]

Got the lube point. What and how much is the question. Read a few places about adding waste motor oil and I think that is the 5%. I bought a gal of Marvel for this "experiment" and was wondering what amount to mix with 30 gals of JET A?

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Is JET A the fuel the big passenger aircraft use?

 

[raf2000]

Think so. Most "turbine" aka jet engines use it these days. Turbines on helicopters too as you can see by heliopilot. I understand it to be highly refined diesel with about 66% of the "oil" removed. I am sure there are some more technical comparisons but it is #1 diesel missing some oil for most applications. . There are new high performance diesel engines available for small aircraft and even a reverse discussion about whether they can/should run #2 diesel INSTEAD of JET A! The aviation industry is highly regulated though. You would be fined out of existence for non-compliance.

 

[raf2000]

Update. Ran full tank of almost straight Jet A and only things different are:



Truck stalls when going from park to D or R ONLY when completely cold (unless I bump the throttle).



Fuel economy is about 10-15% less than #2.



Power with truck empty feels almost the same, maybe 5-10% loss but I am bombed so no big deal running empty.



Exhaust smells like being at an airport (duh).



I couldn't bring myself to dump old oil in the gas tank so I gave it a gallon of new Retell. I am going to use JET A for a while since it's free, even if I have to buy a bunch of oil. Trying to get the scoop on a long term solution for a fuel system lube that is cheaper than Retell. Marvel mystery oil probably OK too but not sure if I want to run that at 5% mix (1. 7 gallons per 34 gal tank).



Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

 

[tntframing]

I couldn't bring myself to dump old oil in the gas tank so I gave it a gallon of new Retell. I am going to use JET A for a while since it's free, even if I have to buy a bunch of oil. Trying to get the scoop on a long term solution for a fuel system lube that is cheaper than Retell. Marvel mystery oil probably OK too but not sure if I want to run that at 5% mix (1. 7 gallons per 34 gal tank).



Any suggestions greatly appreciated. [/QUOTE]





Just use waste oil. I use it everytime i fill up. I run about 25-35% oil to fuel. Runs good. 10 years ago diesel was not so clean and refined like it is today. A little oil never hurt anything

 

[Forrest Nearing]

man, if you're gonna put new oil in there, I'd use the cheapest stuff I could find, not rotella!

 

[Cooker]

Personally I would run a diesel fuel additive before I ran new engine oil.

 

[isb360]

Sulfidation is a condition similar to oxidation, but occurs at a very specific temperature range on typical nickel-based superalloys found in high turbine sections of jet engines. Sulfidation results from varying amounts of sulfer found in Jet A. This is combated in the engine by using alloys that are sulfidation resistant and also with environmental (metallic) coatings on top of the base alloy parts.



How does this relate to what you are trying to do? Maybe not at all, but the point I am trying to make is I know in the past several years, in an effort to control commercial jet exhaust emissions, the amount of sulfur in the fuel has been pushed down.



It might be worth looking into the sulfer content in Jet A versus #2 diesel or #1. Also, there are likely other additives in Jet A to tailor it to the extreme operating environments and cooling requirement in a gas turbine aero engine versus a diesel ground-based engine.



As has been stated, add that lubricant. Sorry I can't give you recommendations... . but at $2. 89/gal for #2 here in CT, I would happily trade a loss in energy content of fuel and thus mileage for free fuel... .



Tim

 

[TGibbs]

Think so. Most "turbine" aka jet engines use it these days. Turbines on helicopters too as you can see by heliopilot. I understand it to be highly refined diesel with about 66% of the "oil" removed. I am sure there are some more technical comparisons but it is #1 diesel missing some oil for most applications. . There are new high performance diesel engines available for small aircraft and even a reverse discussion about whether they can/should run #2 diesel INSTEAD of JET A! The aviation industry is highly regulated though. You would be fined out of existence for non-compliance.

I give it another year before diamond aircraft has diesel engines in compliance for the FAA. They already have them installed and they work excellent, no more worrying about mixture control and they burn half what a normal 100LL avgas motor runs. Cost a little more at first, like the trucks do, but they run twice as long before they have to be overhauled too. Cant wait to fly one

 

[jkern]

i too have run Jet A in my truck. i would run about 10 -12 gallon of jet A in every tank of diesel and then would add a little power service additive. truck ran fine, never any problems at all.

 

[cojhl2]

How about road tax, Isnt there a big fine if yer caught?

 

[keimmmo]

I have never run Jet A, but I have run kerosene many times. Do not worry about adding 1. 7 gallons of used oil to the Jet A. I add 2 gallons of used oil to every tank of #2 diesel!!! When I add kerosene to the tank, I add the same amount of used oil as kero. Runs fine and doesn't smoke. I know guys who are adding as high as 40% used oil to #2 diesel! I wouldn't hesitate to add plenty of free used oil to the free Jet A!!!!! FREE FUEL!!! I LOVE IT!!!



Steve Keim

 

[RoryTek]

We don't dare talk about the "T" word

 

[CJEliassen]

I give it another year before diamond aircraft has diesel engines in compliance for the FAA. They already have them installed and they work excellent, no more worrying about mixture control and they burn half what a normal 100LL avgas motor runs. Cost a little more at first, like the trucks do, but they run twice as long before they have to be overhauled too. Cant wait to fly one

The Centurion engines and the diamond DA42 is already certified in the U. S.



172 knots on 12. 5 GPH.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I couldn't bring myself to dump old oil in the gas tank so I gave it a gallon of new Retell.

With a little care there is no harm at all using old motor oil. Have burned scores of gallons in my trucks with no problem.



Let your old oil settle for a week or two then pour all but the last quart or so in your tank.



I think a gallon of old oil is plenty to lube a tank of Jet-A. If using new oil 1-2 quarts is good, as I recall that's what Cummins recommended.



I think Cummins OKs all Jet fuels with added lube except for one type, but I don't remember what one it was.



Vaughn

 

[Chace TX]

Jet A and Waste Oil

I used to work at an air charter service in College, the owner would give me all the "sump" fuel I could burn. In my mildly modified 91 it ran like absolute crap every time I ran it straight (smooth running but power was way down, had to hit 4th gear to run up hills with no load that I could pull a 8k trailer up in 5th on #2). I did add ATF with the Jet A (didn't know if it would help but old timers suggested it). I run waste oil in my 2001, but only my own after I change the oil. I have 100gal tank in the bed and add the 3gal of waste when it is 1/3-1/2 full.