Anyone thought of oxygen injection?

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I have really enjoyed reading all the post on horsepower upgrades. It dawned on me that the reason we are seeking more boost is to have more Air to combust with more fuel to make more power. If you just kept adding more fuel and no more air then you would reach a point where you would just waste the fuel because it couldnt combust with anything. Oxygen in the air is what is really combusting. & air is only ~20% O2 Wonder what the effect of running some welding oxygen to the air inlet of the turbo diesel would do. Bet the Epa would love those emmisions. I have just never read about this being done. Has it?

 

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Would'nt that make a cutting torch?

 

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It would definately make for more heat for anygiven amount of air or better yet more heat potential in that you would have to add the fuel. Think about it; at 14 psi boost i have essentially doubled the amount of oxygen available for combustion. At 40 psi HVAC has maybe 2. 5 times the available oxygen for combustion than he would have in a normally aspirated engine. Well would you achieve the same "effect" by having an air mixture of 40% @ 20 psi????????????????

 

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That is what you are doing when you at nitrous oxide.

 

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Originally posted by Glen:
That is what you are doing when you at nitrous oxide.

UH well maybe kinda. Nitrous is N2O and I thought its extra heat came from the disentegratin of the double bonds of the nitrogen after the single oxygen reacted anyway thats not what I am talking about. IF O2 & fuel are the two ingredients of combustion why have we always concentrated on the fuel side. I thought someone might know of a pure or partial O2 injection. I geuss I will pull out my O2 Deco bottle and see if that oxygen changes my EGTs at Idle.

 

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HOLD IT!!!!!! OXYGEN AND OIL DO NOT MIX UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!! You would be making a small NUCLEAR BOMB, and it would go off instantly. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!! PLEASE CHECK MY WORDS OUT, WITH PEOPLE YOU TRUST, BUT DON'T DO IT!!!!RON #ad


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2001 QC Dually SLT+ 354 LSD AUTO 4WD Driftwood SS Railcaps Stainless Werks step-rail nerfs Rhino spray-in liner Aux B/U lites Diamond Plate Alum Highways tow box SS Fender lips Jardine 4" Mag-Hytec diff & transmission Alcoa classics Reese 20K hitch 28ft Holiday Rambler 5er w/slide 84 Scrambler 4" lift 33/12. 50's 4. 56 gears soft locker/trac-lok Built 258 w/Mopar fuel injection conversion BUILDING 66-442 Olds, ground up--OH BABY! NRA 25 YEAR MEMBER

 

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I agree with friole totally. Besides being dangerous the increased O2 would likely raise the combustion temp. high enough to cause permanet engine damage. But you might be able to set some records in your one trip down the 1/4 mile!

 

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I have thought about doing this, why would't t work, I was thinking of using a micro switch on the throttle somewhere and a hobbs to turn it off, or leave it on,
I also think you guys are wrong about explotions, as long a you dont try and force 100psi to it,
I have n2o, there is not extra heat, acctually n2o boils at -90 degrees and is 1/3 oxygen by wieght, so you get a cooler intake and more oxygen by using Nitrous,the best of both worlds,
I still think of using pure o2 for no lag

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96 4x4, 3. 54 posi, 3" lift, 35" bfg m/t's, aluminium wheels, sport headlights,billet grill, tenzo blue foglights, K/N, NOS, Bullydog LPG, Tweaked Pump, Hx40 w/ 18. 5cm2, 4" exhaust w/ 2 chamber Flomaster, Jim Leonard street dual disc, Kenwood sterio System, Westach 60lb boost/ egt guage,aluminium bed rail covers, clear tail lenses w/ red bulbs, soon #10 tst and 370hp marine injectors, best performance to date= 428hp @ 2400 and 937lb of torque, and 14. 35 @ 98mph, more to come, Adam

 

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My 6---DON'T DO IT! The IRA (Irish Republican Army), will send its troops over to attend your training sessions. IF YOU TRY THIS--YOUR TRUCK WILL BE DESTROYED FROM THE BACK WINDOW FORWARD! It'll look like some of the car bombs detonated in Ireland. I wish I could get my hands on the training pics I saw when I was a young stud, (or young whatever). It portrayed the destruction of a commercial refrigeration unit, and the killing of two mechanics that were pressurizing a system with oxygen. (happened in Japan). Please trust me--talk to others before you do this. Call a welding shop or whatever. But become informed, it WILL save your butt! Ron

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2001 QC Dually SLT+ 354 LSD AUTO 4WD Driftwood SS Railcaps Stainless Werks step-rail nerfs Rhino spray-in liner Aux B/U lites Diamond Plate Alum Highways tow box SS Fender lips Jardine 4" Mag-Hytec diff & transmission Alcoa classics Reese 20K hitch 28ft Holiday Rambler 5er w/slide 84 Scrambler 4" lift 33/12. 50's 4. 56 gears soft locker/trac-lok Built 258 w/Mopar fuel injection conversion BUILDING 66-442 Olds, ground up--OH BABY! NRA 25 YEAR MEMBER

 

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Hang on guys AIR is 20% OXYGEN. If oxygen and oil dont mix then AIR and oil dont mix. When you are using a turbo YOU ARE ADDING OXYGEN. I really dont want to go off into a big thing on misconcepttions about oxygen. I have dealt with that too much with SCUBA. I am not talking about running pure o2 although that would be the ultimate I am talking about elevated percentages of O2. Yes you would get more heat THATS THE POINT!!! The reason we are adding fuel,Boost-which incidentally is adding more O2 molecules- and higher compressions is to get more HEAT?!?! If you were producing too much heat you would reduce O2, or Boost- which now you wouldnt need as much since 40%O2 at14 psi has the same amount of O2 as AIR at 28psi!!!!!- &and all the other things people arew doing to control heat. Dont look at O2 as some magical thing; it is just the other part of combustion anyway back to the original post. where has this been done??

 

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Originally posted by frijole:
My 6---DON'T DO IT! The IRA (Irish Republican Army), will send its troops over to attend your training sessions. IF YOU TRY THIS--YOUR TRUCK WILL BE DESTROYED FROM THE BACK WINDOW FORWARD! It'll look like some of the car bombs detonated in Ireland. I wish I could get my hands on the training pics I saw when I was a young stud, (or young whatever). It portrayed the destruction of a commercial refrigeration unit, and the killing of two mechanics that were pressurizing a system with oxygen. (happened in Japan). Please trust me--talk to others before you do this. Call a welding shop or whatever. But become informed, it WILL save your butt! Ron

I agree with you that when you have fuel and air/oxygen and accidental ignition that is a recipe for disaster. when you change the amount of oxygen say from 21%,air to maybe 40% or on up the combustion will be more rapid and more intense. A pack of matches and a 5 gallon jug of gas would kill you deader'n hell in your back yard and if you were in a pressuized O2 enviroment it would kill you and cook you. But if you think that 26%O2 is some how "super Dangerous" while 21%O2,Air is not well that is ridiculous. I bet you one thing if you had two trucks and they were exactly alike but one was on planet x whose atmosphere just so happened to have 5% moreO2 than ours. Then planetx's truck would smoke ours. HVAC IS FROM PLANET X

 

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Is there a forum on this board for "mad scientists?" #ad

 

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Originally posted by jjdiesel:
Is there a forum on this board for "mad scientists?" #ad

LOL I know before I posted this I thought "hope this is the right forum" I justified it because it could be a product even if it isnt now. I mean I know of one already its called space shuttle. I dont think NASA will sell me one though. I now become "MAD-SCIENTIST". I needed a good username anyway. Did you have any thoughts on O2 injection itself????

Mad-Scientist

 

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Wile in the Air Force I worked in POL, we had all the fuel and oil and liquid oxygen. We had to fill LOX carts every day, we also would spill allot , when connecting hoses. The LOX beads would dance across the ground if you had grease or oil on your boots it would explode under your foot. Was great fun when you are young and dumb as I was then. Until one morning this fellow stepped on one of the beads and it blew of half of is foot. Keep in mind this 100% pure liquid oxygen. It would be better to create some way of cooling the air before it intered the intake of the engine, cool air is dense air. Just my 2 cents worth

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Eric Pitts
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[This message has been edited by thepitts (edited 06-28-2000). ]

 

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From many years of using 1000 hp worth of N2O in a chevrolet Alky motor (632 cid) I have oft wondered about the benefits of a pure Oxygen, However, the N2O is bad enough with a malfunction. #ad
It seems to me that the oxygen is going to increase the rate of burn dramaticly, dependant upon actual O2 content. Used in moderation, this could be a feasible way of increasing HP and TQ, at the expense of possible engine damage. If anything goes wrong however, I think you would need a new truck, as a minimum. One of the advantages of the N20 is that the Nitrogen slows teh burn enough to be controlable. As the burn in a combustion chamber is nothing but a controlled explosion, I'm not sure we want to speed it up very much. #ad


Bottom line, I'm not going to try it myself, and let me know if you do so I can be far far away! (But let us know if it works!)

 

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Originally posted by thepitts:
Wile in the Air Force I worked in POL, we had all the fuel and oil and liquid oxygen. We had to fill LOX carts every day, we also would spill allot , when connecting hoses. The LOX beads would dance across the ground if you had grease or oil on your boots it would explode under your foot. Was great fun when you are young and dumb as I was then. Until one morning this fellow stepped on one of the beads and it blew of half of is foot. Keep in mind this 100% pure liquid oxygen. It would be better to create some way of cooling the air before it intered the intake of the engine, cool air is dense air. Just my 2 cents worth


Wow yall must have spilled alot. In college we used to love to play around with liquid nitrogen. One of the cool things besides freezing a rose was to throw it at someone and it would vaporize and dissapear before it would hit them it left this line of nitrogen in the air well you couldnt see the Nitrogen instead you could see the water vapor that condesed all along its path. I can imagine how it must have boiled on the ground though. Anyhow I'm talking about compressed O2 gas - cept for my comment about the shuttle- You could never keep O2 as a liquid for very long without some big time cooling sytems. I bet those tanks were massively insulated. Hoses too

 

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Originally posted by RBrooks:
From many years of using 1000 hp worth of N2O in a chevrolet Alky motor (632 cid) I have oft wondered about the benefits of a pure Oxygen, However, the N2O is bad enough with a malfunction. #ad
It seems to me that the oxygen is going to increase the rate of burn dramaticly, dependant upon actual O2 content. Used in moderation, this could be a feasible way of increasing HP and TQ, at the expense of possible engine damage. If anything goes wrong however, I think you would need a new truck, as a minimum. One of the advantages of the N20 is that the Nitrogen slows teh burn enough to be controlable. As the burn in a combustion chamber is nothing but a controlled explosion, I'm not sure we want to speed it up very much. #ad


Bottom line, I'm not going to try it myself, and let me know if you do so I can be far far away! (But let us know if it works!)

I really dont understand what the N20 does I always viewed it as fuel but perhaps this is wrong; thatis some food for thought. I wouldnt go pure O2 anyway probably lets see I can get a fill of Nitrox 36, which is 36%O2 in my dual steel 104s for maybe 15$ at the local dive shop. I would probably have maybe 300 cubic feet of air in them. I bet that wouldnt nbe enough for a 1/4 mile. I bet that cummins breathes more than I do when I am diving. You know when people dive they use air most of the time, because its cheap but air is not the best braething mixture for most dives. I bet you air is not the best breathing mixture for the cummins either its just what god gave us.

Mad-Scientist

 

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Hi Guys, I have been welding for 25+ years and IMO, O2 is a flame accelerant. It makes fire burn hotter. I do not think that O2 in a gaseous form will cause oil to explode. The reason they say on welding equipment "USE NO OIL" is the pressures, that will cause oil to explode. Pressure equals heat. That is why diesels have a higher compression ration then gassers. The pressures in the combustion chamber reach 600 Lbs. psi and when fuel is injected in an atomized state it explodes. Oil on an oxygen fitting will explode because the tank pressures are up around 2000 lbs. psi. I am very carefull when handling O2 fittings, no oily gloves etc. and I cringe everytime I crack the valve for the first time. Don't know much about LOX though, except not to touch it with bare hands. I'm sure the EGTs will rise as the O2 will make the fuel burn hotter and heat is horsepower. Lou

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Hey Lou,
Thank you. You are the sword of truth.
When we use oxygen for diving there are certain industry standards like using Viton rings and non petroleum jelly above 40% mixtures. While most of the people I know blow these off and have never had a problem as you said when dealing with high pressure you have to. A rubber o-ring thats hits combustion temp in a pure O2 enviroment will surely rapidly combust; good news is an o-ring is not alot of fuel. I have filled cyliders above 5,000 psi with pure O2. You know it is like you said"when I crack the valve" I think that is the most danderous time. Good news is it is a small volume to fill up and the surrounding metal will absorbe heat of course also the exiting O2 will experience cooling due to Joules/tompson
effect. High pressure to low equals opposite effect ie cooling. Man I wish you were in Atlanta because I need some mass welding done and I would give it to you sight unseen
Later
Mad-Scientist

 

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Hi Guys
I am impressed with all the responces to this, in my opinion N20 is just what that means 2 parts Nitrogen(I think I'd have to look at my Bottles) and one part Oxygen, the nytrogen is enert, means it doesn't burn, the oxygen is just that, It does not burn without a fuel, the benifiet of N2o is that its real cold, this by itself will slow the burn a little because of the nitrogen, the oxygen helps the burn because it is air, pure air if you will, I am in no way an expert at this but I to have been using n2o for years, a corvette , 13. 9 on the motor, and 12. 02 w/ n2o,mustang 14. 1 on the motor, 13. 3 w/ N2o, a drag boat with 3 different motors, from a stock 502, to a blown 516 w/ 300 plus hp of n2o, but this convorsation is about oxygen so what I think is if you add some pure oxygen to the intake or air cleaner you would add power, maybe not much, but some, you might even be able to add enough to clear up some of the smoke, just like with oxy/ accetaline torches, later
Adam

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96 4x4, 3. 54 posi, 3" lift, 35" bfg m/t's, aluminium wheels, sport headlights,billet grill, tenzo blue foglights, K/N, NOS, Bullydog LPG, Tweaked Pump, Hx40 w/ 18. 5cm2, 4" exhaust w/ 2 chamber Flomaster, Jim Leonard street dual disc, Kenwood sterio System, Westach 60lb boost/ egt guage,aluminium bed rail covers, clear tail lenses w/ red bulbs, soon #10 tst and 370hp marine injectors, best performance to date= 428hp @ 2400 and 937lb of torque, and 14. 35 @ 98mph, more to come, Adam