anyone using ats exhaust/intake manifold?

[JTreas]

just wondering how you like it and if it would be better to have both the exhaust and intake or if it doesn't matter. gonna take care of my stock air soon, either using an afe stage 2 or drc's bhaf.

thanks

p. s. has anyone found a cure for bombitis yet? thinkin about selling one of my children

 

[SRadke]

There are gains to be had in the exhaust manifold but the benifit of intake manifolds has been debated. In high HP applications I see it but not to the average bomber.



As for a cure to the bomb bug I considered selling one of the boys..... but I like the left one and I wouldn't be complete without the right



-Scott

 

[rweis]

When you top #3 & #4 manifold bolts will not stay torqued I have a solution that works.



Bob Weis

 

[Elite1]

When you top #3 & #4 manifold bolts will not stay torqued I have a solution that works.



Bob Weis

Top? Well, whats the solution???

 

[rweis]

When I did my ATS manifold I had the same problem with the cap bolts provided by ATS not holding torque. I got with RustyJC and he did some thermo dynamic analysis of manifold growth with heat, elastic configurations of bolts and studs, and torque retention.



Bottom line, use factory bolts on all but #3 & #4 top (can't use factory because the ATS manifold passages are larger than stock). On #3 & #4 top use studs and Belleville washers and Drake Lock Nuts. The Belleville washers are also called cone washers. They will deflect (cone gets flatter) as the manifold boss heats. However when the boss cools they go back to their ORGIONAL shape. Therfore the torque will hold correctly. Each Belleville will distort about . 0015. The manifold will grow in thickness about . 0035, therefore you need 3 Belleville washers. The stud I used was a 52mm. Length is important as the elastic (ability of the stud to stretch AND return to its orgional length) nature of the stud is part of the clamping equations. Then Drake Lock nut that will not rotate because the 2 parts of the lock nut prevent either part from rotating.



If you just torque a stud in without the Bellevilles the stud will be stretched too much and will go plastic (will stretch but WILL NOT return to its orgional length) and the torque will not hold. If you try to retorque the stud to hold torque eventually you will break the stud off in the block.



In the archives there is a very long thread about this. I installed my ATS manifold and had cap bolts fall out. Then the TSB about using the dog bone stainless steel retainer came out and that workes for everything but #3 & #4 top. The reason the OEM bolts are so long with the heat shield sleeve is that with a bolt that long it has a longer elastic limit and can grow and shrink along with the manifold growth and shrink cycles as the manifold heat cycles.



When I did mine I first put the studs and Bellevilles on ALL the studs. Then the TSB came out and I reduced mine to the #3 & #4 top. Therefore I have several sets of the studs and Belleville washers remaining. I have slowly sold all but 6 sets of them off. Each set is $45 (which is my cost) plus shipping to wherever you are. I had a heck of a time finding an industrial reseller that would sell me just a couple fo the Bellevilles. Most wanted me to buy lots of 1000. The Belleville were about $10 EACH * 3, + Drake Lock nut $10, + stud $3, + a couple of stainless steel washers $1 *2, so the Bellevilles do not cut into your ATS manifold or Drake Lock nut.



You can go back and read the threads, search for "Belleville washers".



Bob Weis

 

[JTreas]

bob, is the ats manifold already drilled and tapped for a pyro sensor?

 

[Subby]

Honestly not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but , how much is the manifold and why are you not holding ATS responsible on this?



Thanks

 

[catoiler]

On my 96 the bolts kept backing off but on my 03 and 05 none have come loose. I am cheap and reused the stock gaskets on the 03 & 05 along with the spacers and nuts. 32000 miles on the 03 and 5500 on the 05 no problems!The intake flows better than the stock piece but does not fit that great where it connects to the intercooler tube, it's tilted up to much and puts the boot and clamp at a weird angle.

 

[jwilliams3]

I always torque to 45ft lbs on the ATS manifold bolts.

I don't have too many issues.



No mod is completely maintenance free.

 

[Punkineater]

ATS isn't cheap $$$ wise. I've been considering both the intake and exhaust, but these posts may make me rethink the purchase. I think I'll look at Banks for the intake as I've seen it and it looks to have no fitment issues. Furthermore, if ATS has a problem with the bolts staying torqued on their exhaust manifold they should include a solution in their kit similar to what rweis came up with. Those who say well any BOMB requires maintenance are simply settling for second rate manufacturing IMO.

 

[SRadke]

I think I'll look at Banks for the intake as I've seen it and it looks to have no fitment issues.

FWIW there have been multiple back to back dyno tests by independant parties that showed no benifit to the Banks "high ram intake". I'm sure Banks thinks it's great though because it's dirt cheap to cast aluminum and they have a great place to put their name in your engine compartment



-Scott

 

[Punkineater]

FWIW there have been multiple back to back dyno tests by independant parties that showed no benifit to the Banks "high ram intake". I'm sure Banks thinks it's great though because it's dirt cheap to cast aluminum and they have a great place to put their name in your engine compartment



-Scott

Banks or ATS..... it's all the same. My point is that manufacturers should be held responsible for errors in the process and include or re-manufacture a fix. Poor fitment on the intake is not what I would expect of an upgrade and certainly not acceptable. You pay good money and should should get good quality in return. It should have been corrected before mass production and at the very least should be corrected now. I've seen a couple of posts on the fit of the intakes which would lead me to believe it wasn't just a one off mistake.

 

[rweis]

My ATS was not drilled and tapped for a pyro. There is a boss area to drill and tap though. It is a designed flat area on the mold that is pleanty large enough to drill and tap. I took mine to a machine shop for the drilling and tapping and they had no problems doing it. I felt I could have done it, but they would get it exactely perpendicular, and clean cut threads.



On the holding ATS responsible, I'm just not into that unless it is totally unusable.



On the torque: The Belleville system torque is 17 FT #. The Drake Lock nut is 10 FT #. The OEM bolt and sleeve system was 32 FT # as I recall. I think if you run plastic / elastic calculations that 45 FT # is WELL into the plastic range unless your bolt is extremely long (longer than the OEM bolt). Good Luck with the 45 FT #.



Bob Weis