Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Anything EXTERNAL that can cause a VP-44 P0216 code?

[Gary - K7GLD]

Couple of years back, in heavy pulls up steep grades, excessive lugging caused an engine "hiccup", a CES and P0216 codes - engine ran fine, no more similar issues until this last couple of weeks - Installed Smarty software, and over the next couple of weeks, 2 P0216 codes - NO CES light, only the codes!



Went back to stock Smarty software, Comp on 1x1 where I usually run it, and yesterday, as I started the truck, a slight surge, and a CES plus P0216 - engine straightened right out, and has run great since. I cleared the P0216 when I got home, this morning ran the truck about 10 miles with the Comp off -no problems, even pushing the engine trying to get it to act up.



I tried wiggling the plug and wires to the VP-44 - all seems properly secure. I have a spare VP-44 - no issue other than time involved to change - but I'm really hesitant to toss what well MIGHT be a good pump - IF there are other external sensor or ECU/PCU issues that might trigger a false code or create problems.



I *have* been making mods on my fuel supply system and pumps - undoubtedly some air in the lines - and that is pretty much what yesterdays scenario acted like - I was parked on an incline - is it possible for an air bubble to mimic a P0216 condition and set a code - or other sensors?



I wish I had more time to sort this out nearer home - but I have a 2000 mile RV trip looming in 2 weeks - so must use good judgement - no way I want to be swapping VP-44's along a remote section of road!



Any help?



Is the P0216 STRICTLY an internal VP-44 code that CAN'T be set any other way than internal malfunction of the pump itself?

 

[keioga]

gary it sounds like the same thing that happened to mine and it was the vp. Seem like a lot of 2002's are suffering the same thing at around 50000 miles. I hope yours is different

 

[wtfd6]

if I remember right, air in the lines and excessive vaccuum in the feed line can cause the code also. but I have never heard of that being the case. oh and of course the number on the keyway matching the number on the pump case. but its not like the keyway is going to change all of a sudden.


mark

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

if I remember right, air in the lines and excessive vaccuum in the feed line can cause the code also. but I have never heard of that being the case. oh and of course the number on the keyway matching the number on the pump case. but its not like the keyway is going to change all of a sudden.





mark

Well, part of that might well easily have been the case here - it's usually pretty well accepted by most here that the P0216 code is the headstone for a VP-44's grave - but if I'd tossed this one the first time I got that code, I would have thrown away over 2 years and 20,000 miles of excellent service - and it's STILL performing great, other than the codes.



Just returned from another 20 miles, tried everything I could to make it stumble or miss - worked perfectly. I'll have to run it for a few more days I guess - only thing worse than the time and effort replacing a pump, is needlessly tossing $1000 out in the process...

 

[DavidC]

How about the Comp. A few years ago I had some bad surging/Bucking and what felt like a miss. It all tripped the CEL and 253 code. I completely disconnected the DDUFM and reinstalled the stock boost elbow. Drove around for a week, no missing, no codes. Diesel Dynamics replaced the box and no issues since. The only other place may be the tap on the pump being yours sounds kind of intermittent, at least for now.



Dave

 

[wtfd6]

i wouldnt jump right into the pump either Gary.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

i wouldn't jump right into the pump either Gary.

I'll try driving it as much as possible over the next week or so - if I get another code, I'll swap it out - if not, I'll have to take a chance...



Sure wish these electronics modules were plug-in units that didn't require test bench adjustments for replacements - it would greatly reduce time and expense of the majority of VP-44 failures...



Sure would like to see one of the half dozen or so guys registered here who work with these pumps daily check in here with a more educated guess or advice.

 

[wtfd6]

it sure would.

 

[Casey Ray]

I got the dreaded p0216 last October, traveling up I5 to Oregon. I was attempting to pass a long line of OTR haulers and had the truck up well over the speed limit when the truck 2nd from the front truck pulled out in front of me. I was immediately off the go pedal and on the brakes, CEL came on immediately. I pulled into the next rest area and pulled the codes. Had the p0216. Cleared it, got back on the road and have not had an issue since, I was told it was probably air being sucked in by the VP44 since I got off the throttle so quickly and the speed I was going.



To say I have not driven like an idiot since, would be an understatement.



I don't have a spare on hand, but will put a new VP44 on when the time arrives, and I believe it will, someday.



Knockin on wood,



Casey

 

[ROADWARRIOR]

When my original pump got the 0216 code, you would get a stumble if you ran the tach up to 2k in neutral. It was very obvious and was the only symptom it had over the freezing mark. Somewhere below freezing it would miss, stumble and buck at the regular idle speed. I ran it this way for 2 years. I also had the wire tapped on that pump.



Dan

 

[CumminsFarmer]

Gary, if you dont remember me I questioned you awhile back about your Carter pusher. I added one as well and have been impressed with the performance. Anyway, have you noticed any odd FP readings while getting these codes? Im assuming no, but let's not rule that out...

On another note, I recently passed about 4 cars in one stretch and got well up to 85-90, once I passed I instantly let off the throttle and hit the e-brake back to 65, no codes, no hiccups. Nothing but great performance...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Anyway, have you noticed any odd FP readings while getting these codes?

I mentioned in another thread that after a recent fuel fillup, my PSI dropped from the usual 22 PSI at idle, down to 10 - a clear sign of cavitation in the stock LP (I've had it before).



I checked at the station and was told they had just switched from winter to summer fuel - and I suspect there might well have been other fuel formulation changes that might have aggravated the sudden tendency of my LP to cavitate.



I pulled the LP, thoroughly took the pump portion apart for inspection, checked it all out - absolutely NOTHING wrong with it electrically or mechanically - but to cover all bases, I installed my spare one - it did EXACTLY the same as the first one - PSI would run up to 22 PSI at engine startup momentarily - then fall back to about 10 PSI.



Mind you, at ALL times, I still had far more than adequate PSI as measured right at the VP-44, due to my pusher pump doing it's job.



My final fuel delivery configuration, since I can't stop the cavitation in the LP, has been to totally eliminate the stock LP, and install a second Carter 4600 pump in series with the first one down on the frame - neither pump makes enough PSI or foaming on it's own to create problems - but both added together deliver a steady 16 PSI to the VP-44 so far.



I also drilled my banjo bolts for better fuel flow, and replaced all fuel lines from the tank to the VP-44 with larger diameter fuel hose for improved flow and reduced restrictions.



I changed both my stock fuel filter - the original was in VERY good visual condition - and also the added Frantz element, which was also clean.



Naturally, all this allowed air in the fuel supply to the VP-44 momentarily, (several different occasions, since various changes were made at different times) along with the usual expected rough running until proper fuel flow was restored, and the engine has ALWAYS run great, other that the slight stumble and resulting CES/P0216 mentioned earlier in this thread.



I've since been running the truck on totally stock settings - the Comp is turned off, Smarty programming has been returned to normal - and several days driving, TRYING to force an error code has produced nothing but a good running truck!



If no more codes show in the next day or so, I'll hook up the trailer, and head out to one of this area's longer and steeper grades for a test run under full load, and see what happens.



One puzzle to me - and perhaps indication that there ARE different possible causes and levels of creation of a P0216, is that over the life of my truck, I have has *6* P0216 codes - *3* of those came with an obvious accompanying CES light, but the OTHER 3 never have given the slightest indication they were there, other than by the occasional "3 ignition cycles" method I use - otherwise, I'd never have known they were there!



So, why, and what varying conditions WILL create a P0216 - and if other EXTERNAL conditions CAN cause them - and the truck otherwise runs well - is it possible to get that code and still have a perfectly good VP-44?

 

[CumminsFarmer]

You've got me stumped. I would say dont worry about it if you have good pressures and no problems associated with the error codes. The only FP difference I notice on my rig are based on outside air temp. , and elevation. On cold days at idle I get about 17 on the gauge, at 3400 feet above sea level in the mountains of Idaho. Down in the valley where I go to college, 700 feet above sea level I get 18 in the cold. On warm days I generally get 19-20 whereever I go. Basically I figure if Im 2 notches above 15 psi on the gauge, both pumps are working great and I have good pressure.

 

[paulb]

Check the overflow valve, on the VP44.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Check the overflow valve, on the VP44.

What would I be looking for, and how do you test it? Will it cause a P0216 if it sticks or is weak?



As I recall, it's a simple spring/ball check valve, very similar to the pressure valve inside the LP...



As it happens, I have a brand new spare one included in my II VP-44 rebuilt - if I thought that was an issue...

 

[paulb]

What would I be looking for, and how do you test it? Will it cause a P0216 if it sticks or is weak?



As I recall, it's a simple spring/ball check valve, very similar to the pressure valve inside the LP...



As it happens, I have a brand new spare one included in my II VP-44 rebuilt - if I thought that was an issue...

Five minutes of time and you'll know. Hint... low lift pump fuel pressure...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Five minutes of time and you'll know. Hint... low lift pump fuel pressure...

Well, it's been my understanding there is no DIRECT path from the VP-44 inlet to the outlet where the overflow valve is located, other components are in between that limit/control flow to the overflow valve - and, as I mentioned in a post above, I've already corrected the VP-44 fuel PSI issue by use of different supply pump configuration - but it's worth looking at as a possible source of VP-44 error codes -



thanks Paul.

 

[SMolteberg]

I was struggeling with my low fuelpressure last night. I had been working on my isolator for the gauge and somehow managed to loose the prime to the VP-44. CEL light came on and found 0216 on the reader. I have never had any stumble or other signs of bad VP-44. I have a good fuel-flow, but very low pressure-readings on my gauge. I think my isolator is the bad guy here. Crossing my finger that the 0216 was the loss of prime. Checked codes after I drove the truck to work, no codes, and rechecked again when I got home, no codes.

Maybe we should do like 98% of the CTD owners do out there. Fly blind and fix problems when they appear, and not like now, rechecking the fuelpressure every five minutes worrying about our preciouse VP-44 or a possibly bad liftpump

 

[nps]

Maybe we should do like 98% of the CTD owners do out there. Fly blind and fix problems when they appear, ...

I like to be proactive, but in many cases the prevention takes more time and $$$ than the cure. Plus my neighbors all think that Dodge CTDs must be a POS given how much time the hood is up on my son and my rigs.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I was struggeling with my low fuelpressure last night. I had been working on my isolator for the gauge and somehow managed to loose the prime to the VP-44. CEL light came on and found 0216 on the reader. I have never had any stumble or other signs of bad VP-44. I have a good fuel-flow, but very low pressure-readings on my gauge. I think my isolator is the bad guy here. Crossing my finger that the 0216 was the loss of prime. Checked codes after I drove the truck to work, no codes, and rechecked again when I got home, no codes.

Maybe we should do like 98% of the CTD owners do out there. Fly blind and fix problems when they appear, and not like now, rechecking the fuelpressure every five minutes worrying about our preciouse VP-44 or a possibly bad liftpump

THERE ya go!



Thanks for posting that - it reinforces my thoughts that OTHER outside causes/effects CAN mimic or create a P0216 - and it just might NOT be a VP-44 issue at all!



In my case, the fuel foaming/cavitation issue I was fighting, caused me to change 1 lift pump, 2 fuel filters, and finally drop the stock LP completely offline and place a second pusher-type pump in series with the original one - plus modding fuel lines and fittings.



All that created multiple restart situations with air in the fuel lines that had to be purged - with SOME air pockets quite likely not immediately flushed clear of the lines.



MEANWHILE, this morning, after several days normal around-town driving with no codes or issues, we hitched up the RV for a test run up a nearby grade.



That grade rises over 2000 feet in 4. 5 miles, and is about 11 miles from here. Total distance driven was about 30 miles, 9 of that up/down a steep grade.



NO codes - truck ran like a champ, and the 2 series-ed Carter 4600 pumps kept up just fine - tho' it IS possible to zero the PSI gauge if I *really* bury the go-pedal... I'll undoubtedly eventually have to make additional pump mods to get my PSI back up to about 10 PSI under maximum load - but for now, I'm fine - and so seems to be the VP-44.



Hope I don't have to eat my words too soon...