Are Modern Truck Buyers Asking for Too Much Luxury?

[rbattelle]

As I read the TDR, DTR, Dieselstop, and Dieselpage, I frequently hear things like:



"For $40000 it shouldn't be this noisy... "

"For $50000 it shouldn't ride so stiff... "

"For $45000 is should/shouldn't [insert complaint]... "



Legitimate problems aside, there's lots of lamentation on how someone paid a ton for his truck and the axles make too much gear noise, the transmission is too notchy, the suspension is too stiff, the engine is too noisy, the cab smells like diesel, the air conditioning compressor makes too much noise, etc. Frequently people imply that for $45000 (or whatever you paid) the truck should ride nice, not smell, and not be noisy or otherwise "uncivilized".



The number of HD diesels sold as commuter vehicles is increasing all the time. Is it perhaps the case that all these people are complaining about buying a truck instead of a Caddy? Are trucks really noisy, stinky, rough rip-offs at $40000 a pop?



My truck is far noisier than any gas vehicle I own or have owned. With the windows down I breathe diesel fumes. The A/C compressor sometimes sounds like it's going to explode when it engages, and I can feel when it's on from the increased vibrations in the wheel. My NV5600 shifts like a truck transmission (notchy, long throws). My rear end sounds like a geartrain. My transfer case has a whine in it when engaged. The engine sounds like a washing machine full of marbles when it's cold outside.



Guess what: I enjoy all this music! These things are exactly why I bought this truck - because I wanted a TRUCK. So what did I get for my $40000? I got a vehicle with one of the most powerful (in terms of torque) engines available in a light duty vehicle in the entire world. I got a vehicle that can easily tow more the double it's own weight. I got a massive rear end, massive transmission, massive transfer case, and all-told around 7000 lb of steel and iron. My truck cost about 2. 5 times my wife's civic, but it's at least 10 times more capable. I call that value. A friend recently bought a Suburban for near $50000 with all the options. And yet I see my truck as more capable: more towing, more payload, more ground clearance, etc. I paid much less than $40000... who got the real bargin?

 

[Headshot zod]

its a truck..... duh!!!!!! 2 votes and 100% for "yes" they are asking too much... ... . Oo.

 

[Jeff Clark]

I say yes and no. There are to kinds of truck buyers, one that shops for a light duty 1/2 ton to drive daily and make the occasional trip to the hardware store and maybe pull their boat. The other is the type looking for something heavy duty to work, pull a big fiver, or whatever else. The first group isn't asking to much for luxury. If I'm spending 30K for a Z-71 Chevy, I want to the be quiet and smooth. On the other hand I have to expect that a heavy duty pickup like mine is going to feel and handle like a truck.

 

[SGibson]

I don't think so, my trucks are work trucks and none have air or a nice stereo or leather and the list goes on, my driver is a 78 crew cab w/ p/s&p/b, thats it, its in vgc but when I ride in my friends 97 or 04. 5 ctd's they are damn nice, comfortable, and faster than mine. I think this extends all the way to the class 8's, It would be easy to be honest on a trip sheet if OTR drivers had to drive trucks like my 75 900 again, god forbid. the more comfortable you are will make you a better driver useally

 

[JARichard]

rbatelle,

It is a catch 22. You are right I bought a Cummins in a Dodge body. Engine is awesome, I personally have no complaints on my slush box or rear end. But the inside rattles and squeaks unlike several of the PS's that i ride in with customers or the owner of the company I work for. As a matter of fact HE refuses to Ride in my rattle box. BUT his PS can't jerk your head back with 3000 lbs. of Iron on the back.

 

[klenger]

As the Chevy ad states: "more than you need or more than you are used to?"



I don't think our trucks need to be luxurous, but what they do put on them should work. Duh!! As far as minor rear end and transmission noise, ... it's a truck!!

 

[rbattelle]

In some ways I suppose it is a catch-22. For me, I would be willing to put up with rattles and poor fitting parts on the interior because I didn't buy my truck with a "nice interior" in mind. I bought it with strength in mind.



I'm so glad I was able to get all these heavy duty components at such a bargain price, and they throw in some electric windows and climate control for free!

 

[TxDieselKid]

I think that if you want luxury, then you are paying for it, and if you don't want it, you are paying for it anyways. I do think that if I buy a $40,000 truck, I want every penny I spent back in the truck. If I want a truck with the basic package, i. e. no carpet/ac/cd player/auto windows/auto locks then I would expect to pay a MUCH lower price.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

In earlier years, auto makers laughed off the Volkswagen and other small cars as a product that wouldn't sell to an American public - to THEM, "small" meant CHEAP - thus cars like Nash Metropolitans and Corvairs - plus many other trashy small stuff. Europe and Japan proved you COULD have both QUALITY and economy in a smaller package, and the rest is history - look how long it took Detroit to learn their lesson!



WHY must a truck be bone-jarring, noisy and crude - is it some sort of macho ritualistic issue that insists REAL men don't WANT or NEED comfort and relative quiet and quality in their daily work vehicle?



If so, the truck makers in this country are due for ANOTHER lesson from overseas as foreign makers get ever closer to production of heavy-duty trucks that are work trucks in tuxedos...



Trucks don't HAVE to be crude to work hard!

 

[KCJackson]

Only thing I'd love to have are proper front seats. HD trucks and buses come with Recaros from the factory now. If I want a decent driver's seat in a Ram, I have to buy an SRT-10, or order the seats from it and spend who-know-how-much on labor to put them in. A good supportive seat would make those road trips way more comfortable, especially with a heavy-duty suspension like these Cummins Rams have hitting expansion joints and potholes on long trips. I don't need the 58-disc CD changer with 20 speakers, gauges that tell me the temperature in the dead center of the bed, or a leather wrapped steering wheel that controls the stereo in my home as well as the truck. Just let me drive a few hundred miles and not have to need a bed when I get to my destination.

 

[mikel]

I think they are. More and more, trucks these days are being marketed to people that *need* to go buy a station wagon or sedan but for whatever "image" reason want to look cool riding around in a truck.



Look at what happened to 1/2 ton trucks. You used to could buy one pretty cheap and then take it out and actually work it. And it would hold up, year after year. Now they're just poser vehicles with more chrome parts than the ricers have.



Not anymore. Everything is covered with some kind of flimsy plastic, so you can't take off through the field with it without worrying about knocking pieces off. Also, don't even think about putting any real weight in the back of any 1/2 ton, they tail-drag with a 4-wheeler in the bed.



The "bigger" trucks are getting that way too. 3/4 and 1-tons with more leather and wood crap in them than is found on the back 40. Heck, how many threads do we have going right now about one person or another asking if air-bags work well to help keep the back of their CTD from dropping so much when they hook to their trailer?



Trucks should have balls, they should be tough, and they should be able to work hard without adding a bunch of stuff to get there.



Mike

 

[John - K5AWO]

Well, from my end of it, I bought the Cummins engine. The truck just happened to come with it.



I prefer the seats in the Fords. Much better than what Dodge has ever made. My old '89 F-350 rode like a car, worked like a truck. I wish I had it back w/Cummins power but that isn't cost effective. I don't like the Isuzu diesel so a powerjoke is out.



My dad's '76 Dodge 1/2 ton is just exactly what was just described as a work truck. 2-55 a/c and AM radio with a 3 speed and 318 CI engine, cloth seat, rubber floor mats. At 55 mph, it got 18 mpg, at 75 it got 12.



Would I want it today? No, too damn rough riding. Seat killed my back. I would be physically ill here in Phoenix without a/c having suffered a heat stroke 2 years ago. (Fell out of a fire engine while working on the dispatch computer, was lucky the engineer caught me before my head hit the pavement. )



What I want is a vehicle that does it all for me. Work hard, comfortable to drive and still rested when I arrive. And yes, I am saving for an air-ride suspension because it rides like a tank!



-John

 

[Blufrog]

Heck ya I want some! Why not? When I am traveling with the family on long vacations then I want some comfort. Nothing like hauling your trailer or whatever and being relaxed when you get there rather than being worn out from a rough ride.



After a 12 hour day of walking on rocks then having to drive 4 hours home I was glad the truck rode like a caddy!



But hey thats just me!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"What I want is a vehicle that does it all for me. Work hard, comfortable to drive and still rested when I arrive. And yes, I am saving for an air-ride suspension because it rides like a tank!"



EXACTLY!



Why hafta buy *3* DIFFERENT vehicles at today's prices, to do what *1* should be fully capable of? A station wagon to haul 4-6 people with a little room for hauling - a passenger vehicle for pure transportation - and a truck for serious hauling?



That's just plain foolish - and ceratinly not cost-effective! Sure - a no-frills truck model for those ONLY wanting a pure work truck without the frills is OK - but MANY young families need a SINGLE vehicle that meets MANY differing needs - and be able to do it with decent quality, style and comfort!



As to the perceived "cheapening" of later model stuff - that has little, to NOTHING, to do with making these trucks fancier - it has FAR more to do with making them lighter and fuel efficient, due to EPA and such - plus, it makes them cheaper to manufacture while still delivering far better looks than the hard bench seats, plain thin rubber floormats, cardboard door panels and headliners (if you got any at all!) of earlier trucks. Do you REALLY wanna go back there?



For me, I'll take a "iron fist in a velvet glove" vehicle that is designed to handle a wide variety of functions and tasks, and do them in comfort and style - my current truck so far is doing that quite well for my family, and I ain't ashamed!

 

[mikel]

Ok, I just re-read my post and I don't think I got my thoughts across accurately, sometimes typed words are harder to put in place than spoken words.



I think that "trucks" should be capable of being driven off the showroom floor and put to work without adding anything other than maybe a specialized hitch.



When "trucks" are sold that are supposed to be able to carry whatever amount of weight with the rear axle then the owner shouldn't have to add aftermarket junk to the truck to keep the rear bumper off the ground with that amount of weight on it.



To me, if these kinds of things can be achieved *AND* the truck has a nice soft ride then so much the better, just don't make my "truck" less useful in order to accomidate someone who really ought to just go buy a car.



I don't mean to imply that trucks should be "no-frills" (to quote Gary), I won't own a truck without A/C. Power windows are also a necessity, not a "frill" to me, but trucks that can't be used as trucks without adding a bunch of aftermarket accessories to it because some designer decided to cater to the "needs-a-car-but-wants-a-truck" crowd just plain **** me off.



Mike

 

[Jengle]

I said no, because it's not unreasonable to ask for the nicer things, when you are paying that much for a truck. Used to be, you bought a truck, came with floor and seat coverings you could hose out, if it got muddy. It was expected to work, not be a status symbol and you got them for a fraction of the cost of a luxury car. As the yups thought it was trendy to have a truck, simply as a status symbol, they started complaining that it was too truck-like. So, the makers made them less of a truck, and charged accordingly. Unfortunately, we are along for the ride, since Soccer Sally dictates what the husband buys in most cases. Remember the old clutch pedals that took a lot of force to depress? Be interesting to see the stats on how many autos vs. std transmissions are sold. I know I had to order mine to get the 6 spd. I might have seen 2 out of 30-40 trucks I looked at. But as the price goes up, I don't find it unreasonable to expect more for the money.

 

[y-knot]

Yes deffinitly. The truck buying segment has changed for the worse with in the last twenty years. Use to be a truck was seen as an working vehicle, people bought one because they had many errands to do, most of which required the towing or hauling of many items. The truck was expected to be rough enough to be driven around the farm, off-road and on job sites without pieces breaking or geting hung up. For the most part, trucks were used to do dirty chores and get to and from remote areas or work sites. People did not expect all the amienities of todays trucks, what they did expect was a tough, trouble free vehicle that did not cost as much as a small house. The eighties are responsible for the growth of the trucking industry, till then a truck was a TRUCK. The yuppies and all there friends of the me generation jumped on the truck seen to impress one another. The mini-van had been out and alot of people did not like the image of being a soccer mom, so the SUV market skyrocketed. Since they were at the time mostly based on a truck platform, the trucks started to evolve into what we have today, a car that looks like a truck. The mood of the times and the increased research needed to modify the ride charactoristics and handeling to accomidate the more finaky driver shot the price streight thru the roof. In 1990 i bought a top of the line full size chevy 4x4, it had most every option along with new to that year the Z71 package. I bought that truck after rebates for just under 15,000. 00. later that very year, chevy had two price increases, and has since consistantly continued to raise the price till non-days that same truck is 33-34,000. 00. It's still the same basic truck, but two and a half times the price. Not all on the latest technologies are bad, I like some of the newer options as well as anyone, just do we really need heated seats? leather ? on-star? No we don't! Today's truck is a far cry from what a truck was suppose to be. many of the so called trucks, are really car platforms with truck like bodies. And the average truck driver does not make a living with his hands or go oof road or farm. Truth is most are affraid of getting dirty, and even take the truck to have it washed and it's oil changed, what happened?? how did car become trucks? why does a women or man need to drive a truck to the office?? And why does my truck ride like a car, it's not suppose to be a car, so why ride like one??? look at today's truck drivers, how many do you think would drive a truck if it did not have all the bells and whistles?? I don't think their would be to many. Thruth is most do not need a truck, so why do they buy one? Do they just love to **** away money on gas? Do they feel more insecure about there manhood, and hope that the truck will cover up something?? Why does everyone buy a 4x4 and never use it?? And why does so many diesel buyers feel so smug, almost like they view their truck as a statis symbol? It's not, it's a watered down truck. Good day

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

There seems to be some notion among the "a truck's gotta be mean, tough and simple" crowd, that todays trucks aren't up to the same levels or work as older ones, or that their price would drop dramatically if theye were again lots more basic in design...



BS!



At best you would maybe drop a few hundred bucks - the leather heated seats would go, and rubber mats would replace carpets - a few more similar items, and that's about IT!



I have pulled my same identical trailer with a 57 Ford, 67 Chevy, '91 Dodge/Cummins, and now the '02 - in addition to varying added amenities over the years, each truck upgrade noticeably outperformed what had been before it - the '02 is the all-time champ - certainly NO softening of performance or toughness as years have passed and comfort has increased.



And like it or not, truck prices have pretty well kept pace on price increases with regular family passenger vehicles of equal quality - and there's not a lot you would, or could take off a new truck that would seriously reduce it's cost...



But for the sake of argument, let's say we COULD take off the bucket seats and go back to a plain plastic covered bench seat - thin rubber mats instead of carpet, no air conditioning - a plain jane, or NO radio - manual transmission, no extended or quad cab - plain vanilla paint jobs, and those cheap and nifty drum brakes all around - no headliners or inner door panels - just plain bare metal. OK, now you have all you "simpler times and trucks" guys are weeping for - how much would you expect to pay - and would you REALLY want one instead of what you have, regardless of any REALISTIC price reduction?



C'mon, be honest now...

 

[rbattelle]

Gary, of course I wouldn't want such a stripped-down truck. However, I prefer that the automaker concentrate on giving me top-quality driveline/frame/body components to the detriment of rattles, noises, smells, and fit-and-finish. In other words, I'd rather have an engine that lasts forever than a dashboard that doesn't have any rattles in it. Which is exactly why I chose this truck.

You rarely hear Lexus owners, for example, complaining that "for $60000 this thing should have 700 ft-lb and 650 hp".

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary, of course I wouldn't want such a stripped-down truck. However, I prefer that the automaker concentrate on giving me top-quality driveline/frame/body components to the detriment of rattles, noises, smells, and fit-and-finish. In other words, I'd rather have an engine that lasts forever than a dashboard that doesn't have any rattles in it. Which is exactly why I chose this truck.

You rarely hear Lexus owners, for example, complaining that "for $60000 this thing should have 700 ft-lb and 650 hp".

And exactly what serious issues do you have with the drivetrain in our trucks - and what issues with fit and finish? I'm really curious - cuz *I* think all those areas on my truck are pretty much what I would expect in a truck in this weight and price class - certainly advanced over the older trucks I mention further above. I've ridden in/driven what Ford an GM have to offer - and in spite of what their brand loyalists like to claim, don't see any significant differences between them in terms of quality of drivetrain or fit and finish.



This thread is focused on what a few have claimed as buyers wanting too much luxury in a truck - with the counterpoint that some here would prefer a more basic truck geared more for rugged down-and-dirty use, My point is that using the basic platform, there's very little that could be eliminated that would seriously reduce the cost or increase ruggedness - any notions of cutting cost by half or even a third are fantasy - and once the critics actually SAW and DROVE what was left after the reduction in "Luxury", I'd pretty well bet they would jump right over into the line for better seats and softer suspension... And GEE, that AC and soft music sure is nice on a long trip thru the desert... :-laf :-laf



In any event, I'd also pretty much bet DC, Ford and GM make 'em this way for ONE reason - it's what most buyers WANT and are willing to PAY for!