are over sized tires causing my steering components to wear prematurely?

[Herman8r]

Still having front end issues (like a lot of people). I have gone thru 4 steering boxes (including 1 factory box, 1 Borgenson, 2 Reman Boxes from CARQUEST) , steering shaft (Borgenson) replaced steering linkage twice before upgrading to the 2008+(which has been replaced) complete rebuild of the front end ball joints, hub bearings & joints.

I still have steering "klunks" felt in the floor boards & the steering wheel.

Question is--do I live with it or go back to stock tires --or something close?

One thing I have noticed is the Carli Control Arms do rub on the mounts. This does cause some road feel or "klunks" felt in the floor. I take a wrench & center the arms in relation to the mount & the bump feel goes away for awhile. I have decided to put plastic inserts next to the frame mount to see if I can isolate the metal to metal contact.

What are your thoughts??

 

[Regcabguy]

Carli guarantees their products for life. Metal to metal contact doesn't sound right. You might contact them.

 

[AEdelheit]

Ive Ran 37" tires and dont have nearly as many issues as your truck, I did have a clunk in the pedals and wheel that was my Borgeson shaft, took it apart and greased it, all better now!

 

[cerberusiam]

Yes, as a rule larger tires are going to accelerate the wear on marginal front end and steering components. If you use rims that do not have enough back spacing it will be much worse. If you use a wider taller tire instead of just a taller tire, it will be much worse. If you do a lift it will be much worse.

If you do all the above it will be a LOT worse. If you do not use the HD components provided by Carli and others, everything wears faster due to the stress. Basically if you go away from relatively close to stock tire size and suspension height there will issues unless you address the changes in geometry.

 

[Herman8r]

I will check the shaft. Sounds like a good idea.

Regarding Carli Control Arms----not only did I contact them-I went to their shop. Told them my problem. One tech said "impossible" another tech said he saw it once before (contact from outer housing to mounting bracket) and suggested putting plastic between the bracket mount & the housing.

I have even gone as far as taking the bushing out of the arm and greasing it & re-installing it. Pain in the butt. The metal retaining washer acts as a stop for the retaining sleeve to keep it from over rotating. Again--this is metal to metal at this area also--sleeve to washer. So the entire set up ends up with metal contact starting from the mounting bolt all the way to the mounting bracket only when the arm is rotated on it's axis----which rotates every time you drive up a drive approach---and the arm does NOT rotate back to the center position. I was even told NOT to over grease this joint. Only grease it a slight bit at oil changes so as not to blow out the bushing.

I am looking at the DOR (Dodge OFF Road)control arm set up online as I type this. Different type of joint construction.

 

[Herman8r]

Yes, as a rule larger tires are going to accelerate the wear on marginal front end and steering components. If you use rims that do not have enough back spacing it will be much worse. If you use a wider taller tire instead of just a taller tire, it will be much worse. If you do a lift it will be much worse.

If you do all the above it will be a LOT worse. If you do not use the HD components provided by Carli and others, everything wears faster due to the stress. Basically if you go away from relatively close to stock tire size and suspension height there will issues unless you address the changes in geometry.

I thought I was addressing the geometry by installing the Carli Suspension & control Arms. And the Borgenson Box.

As far as back spacing---I have not thought about that. I will have to check the specs. The tires do extend about 2" beyond the fenders as the tire is wider & taller then stock & I went to an 18" rim too.

 

[cerberusiam]

Exactly what suspension system did you do? The Commuter 2.0?

The steering box will change nothing in the suspension geometry. The suspension system and control arms that mount in the stock brackets will not adjust the suspension geometry for the changes.

The 3" VR springs are the absolute limit of what the front end can be raised with mandating other changes. Even then the changes induced tend to have residual effects. Basically you install it and if it drives good you are off and running until the other stock componenets start wearing out then you have to upgrade or change things.

The stock back spacing on a 3rd gen is 6.25". A lot aftermarket wheels are only 4.5" to maybe 5" back spacing. Add a set of larger tires and it kills steering boxes, TRE's, and ball joints on a routine basis. That extra 1-1.5" of added leverage coupled with the weight of the engine exceeds the range the stock parts are meant to work in. Add in the changing the angle of attack of the tires on the ground with just standard control arms, it just destroys the standard front end steering and suspension parts.

The clunk you are hearing is probably the track bar. The track bars with heims in them all seem to do that without a lot of extra tightening.

 

[Herman8r]

yes the 2.0 system.

Ceberusiam---Good info posted!

Regarding the Track Bar--that did happen after it was installed. I had to install a larger bolt & sleeve due to the egg shape hole in the frame. I assume caused by the bolt not tightened enough by the installer ??? or is this that common?

The more I approach this the more I am thinking of going to a tire size one size up from stock.

This has been a very expensive decision to add these components only to have constant replacement of parts --which I do myself--to save $$$ and mostly down time.

 

[AEdelheit]

The Carli arms are a great product, I would strongly discourage swapping them out for DOR arms, I bet if you pit a shop rag or somthing around that joint and the frame the noise you here will still exist.

 

[Herman8r]

when I rotate the arm so it is in the center --the noise & feel go away. No metal to metal contact--no noise or road feel.

 

[cerberusiam]

If the bolt is not really cranked down they get loose and wear. If that hole is now oblong and you did not drill it out or weld a washer to it it might still be moving wit the flex of the suspension. Could be the control arms also if you are seeing where they touch the brackets.

Those tires are almost 13" wide, that is alot of contact patch given the weight on them. Works great if you you were on soft surfaces all the time but on a hard road it is going to transfer a lot of energy, and, with the back space out too far the leverage goes up. A 5.5 or 5.75 back space migh clear and only rub at full lock. somewhat depends on rim width also. Seems once the tires get to around a 12" face the problems start with rubbing and killing components. Aside from Carli or Dynatrac BJ's and a beefier set or TRE's there is not much you can do but repalce when they wear out.

A long arm might solve the clunking, will solve the geometry problem and possibly the rubbing. If you are looking for articulation in the suspension those are the best solution.

 

[Regcabguy]

I will check the shaft. Sounds like a good idea.

Regarding Carli Control Arms----not only did I contact them-I went to their shop. Told them my problem. One tech said "impossible" another tech said he saw it once before (contact from outer housing to mounting bracket) and suggested putting plastic between the bracket mount & the housing.

I have even gone as far as taking the bushing out of the arm and greasing it & re-installing it. Pain in the butt. The metal retaining washer acts as a stop for the retaining sleeve to keep it from over rotating. Again--this is metal to metal at this area also--sleeve to washer. So the entire set up ends up with metal contact starting from the mounting bolt all the way to the mounting bracket only when the arm is rotated on it's axis----which rotates every time you drive up a drive approach---and the arm does NOT rotate back to the center position. I was even told NOT to over grease this joint. Only grease it a slight bit at oil changes so as not to blow out the bushing.

I am looking at the DOR (Dodge OFF Road)control arm set up online as I type this. Different type of joint construction.

Thuren's Alien arms are awesome. You can call Don directly and he'll get back to you within a day. He might direct you to one of his vendors for the sale but he's a neat guy to speak directly to.

 

[AEdelheit]

Thuren long arm are awsome, but really un necessary for the OP. I would pull the Carli arm, cut out a rubber washer and put it between the arm and frame, you should not have to but they are a far better arm then DOR IMO and it would cost minimal and solve your problem. Track bars can clunk but thats normally when turning left to right, do you feel the clunk when turning or hitting bumps??

 

[cerberusiam]

long arms are awsome, but really un necessary for the OP.

I disagree completely with that mind set. They are awesome simply because they fix the problems created by the lifts and not using them while addressing the short comings of the OE control arm suspension. Even stock height suspension would benefit greatly from that type of design.

Even Dodge corporate has figured that much out as all the new HD's come with an OE radius arm suspension.

It is not really about what works, but, what works the best. No reason to drop that kind of $$$ on a suspension system and NOT buy the best solution possible.

 

[AEdelheit]

Oh im fully aware of the benefits of long arms and suspension geometry, but to say the OP needs to drop $1800 to make the front end work is just not realistic, there are thousands of trucks out there with 3" lifts and short arms with no issues. Aside from the cost and having to cut off the lower control arm mounts there is no downside to long arms, there awsome, but not needed.

 

[cerberusiam]

But that is the whole point of embarking on installing a suspension system, to make it as good as possible. Why bother if not to do the best available. I am not saying the radius arm or long is needed to make the supension system work, but rather to make it work as well as possible with a lift. The choices are "good enough" or "the best possible", that ends up being a personal choice.

 

[AEdelheit]

Completely agree!!!!! And Thuren long arms are next on my list as long my transmission doesnt steal the funding first!!!

 

[Herman8r]

Thuren long arm are awsome, but really un necessary for the OP. I would pull the Carli arm, cut out a rubber washer and put it between the arm and frame, you should not have to but they are a far better arm then DOR IMO and it would cost minimal and solve your problem. Track bars can clunk but thats normally when turning left to right, do you feel the clunk when turning or hitting bumps??

AEdelheit,
Putting in the rubber or urethane spacers is the next step (as soon as it cools down here!!) I have $700 invested in these control arms so I want to try & isolate & solve the issues one by one.
City driving on bumpy streets is when I notice most of the road feel. Freeway driving is not as bad.

I have not had the track bar clunk after I installed an oversized bolt, sleeve & new bushing and that was last year.

My biggest issue now are steering boxes. Currently I have a CARQUEST Reman on now. I had to by one when I took off the Borgeson Box to send in for warranty work. I have not put it on yet.
What I did not like about the Borgeson Box (besides the leak & looseness) was the feeling in the steering wheel. I would go over railroad tracks & my steering wheel would over travel left & right. It was not as bad after I replaced the pitman arm. I do not have that over travel with the Reman Box & OE pitman arm.

 

[AEdelheit]

I would try calling Strapt performance in Pheonix, they have a lot of experiance with the steering on these trucks and some good options out there.

 

[Herman8r]

thanks. I will look into it.

Regarding long arms---what benefit will the long arms have with the suspension I have. And by the way--the suspension is the "Performance 2.0" not the Commuter 2.0. My Error.

Thanks again for all of the info.