Are short trips (and low mileage) bad for a cummins diesel?

[c-hawk]

If i could pass a question on to you all...



I have a friend who wants to get a 99 to 01 dodge/cummins, but is concerned that he may "hurt the motor" because of all the short trips he makes. His drive to work is only 4 miles each way. That's no where near enough to get the motor up to normal operating temps. I guess in total he may drive about 75 miles a week, average.



He doesn't need a diesel for any reason, just wants one. His Ram 1500 does everything he needs and then some, he just likes my diesel so much...



What advice should I give him? How bad is it for the motor to not reach operating temps and have a bunch of short trips. As long as he gets it good and warm a few times a week, and runs it easy when it's cold, will that be ok?



I would appreciate any advice that I could pass along.



Chris

 

[Alan Reagan]

I'm sure there will be some good opinions on this one so I'll tell you what I've seen in specific cases.



First, there is a ferry that crosses the Savannah River from River Street to Hutchinson Island. The trip is 500 feet each way. The ferry is powered by twin 5. 9 ISBs and talking to the Cummins mechanic that services the engines he says it is no problem with those engines. They are cooled by taking on river water so in the winter if the thermostat should open by some magical occurance, the engine would be suddendly filled with 50 degree water. Do they ever operate "at temperature"? Not in the winter. Not as we know it.



Second, alot of the emergency diesel generators and fire pumps I see only get run once a month for just a few minutes to test output and then they are shut down. They never get up to an acceptable operating temperature. Plus, since they are emergency, they are started and put under full load immediately without any kind of warmup. The only smoke I ever see come out of these things is black when they first come under load.



Short trips might not be ideal, but it can't be as hard as the marine application on these same engines. And they work great.

 

[RKohn]

1. Yes, it's bad.

2. It's a waste of money for his intended purpose.



:--)



3. It's a bigger waste of a good motor, not getting run. :{











That being said, remind him that after he buys one, which we all know that he will, change the oil based on time and not mileage and get it analyzed, because he'll have a lot of condensate.

 

[klenger]

It would help if he could take it for a drive once a week or so to get it up to temp for a while. If he can't do that, and he's got the money to buy it, then go for it. He certainly won't wear it out.

 

[LSMITH]

Tell him to buy it and run it any darn way he pleases.



First, it is his money and if he wants it BUY IT!!! Life is too short to deny something that you can afford.



Second, it may not be ideal for the engine but it darn sure will not kill it. The engine will last a long long time with driving it this way. At that rate of mileage per week he will LONG be sick of it before he gets 150K miles on it. The engine will take it with no problems.



Third, have him go talk to Cummins. They will tell him to go to full rated power as soon as the grid heater stops cycling if needed.



You and he need to remember that the guys on here are typically WAY over anal about the treatment of their trucks. They are here because of a passion for the trucks and are not typical owners. The way most of these trucks are run would make most of us CRINGE!!!!! Turbo cooldown? What is that? You mean you should warm it up before pulling that load of hay out onto the highway and nailing the throttle? Why plug it in if it will start? People actually use these things as simple transportation and work the crap out of them with no worries, they hold up fine.



I just don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[fkovalski]

My drive to work is only 5 miles each way, but as was said, I do a least 100 miles contuous on the weekends to "stretch its legs. " I do plug it in each night too. Also- oil changes are critical for this type of driving as condensation might tend to build up quicker and sooner. I faithfully change every 3,000 miles. While I do not use the Cummins to its full potenial, its great to have all the power I would ever need. Especially in the mountains (90 mph to the Eisenhower Tunnel!) and the occasioal tow.

 

[krs]

If he's anything like me he'll find excuses to drive it more, and more,... ... ... and more.

 

[1tuffram]

I had the same concern 2 yrs ago when i moved to Colorado for my new job. My commute is 1. 5 miles each way with several stop lights. I run Amsoil and have been doing oil analysis every 6mos with oil filter changes. Every report has come back great (No fuel dilution, condensation, TBN good, etc). I have only put maybe 7,000 miles on the truck in the past 2 yrs, heck I only go to the fuel pump every 2 mos on average. So far I have had NO problems. A few things I do to help ward off bad things is have cardboard blocking the radiator (in cold months), keep idleing to 10 min ( in winter I will let idle for a few minutes, then slowly ramp up the RPM to around 1100 - 1200 for about 5 minutes or so then drive), plus I try to avoid using the heater so as to try and let the engine build up some heat. On weekends I will take opportunity to do some driving and bring the engine up to operating temp finally, whether it be running errands around town or just a short drive with the wife.



Yes the short trip driving is definitly less than ideal for the Cummins and I hate doing it, but it won't kill the engine providing you do some of things I have mentioned and take advantage of longer trip drives whenever they arise. We are looking into buying a house later this year and one of my requirments (besides a garage big enough to fit a truck in) is it has to be far enough from work that the commute will get the engine up to operating temp. Living close to work is conveinent, but not ideal operating conditions for the Cummins IMO.

 

[c-hawk]

Thanks everyone for all the quick replies. I'll be sure to pass it along.



Chris



P. S. If anyone has anything else to add, I would be interested in reading it.

 

[illflem]

Of course he should buy whatever he likes and the short trips won't hurt much. What he won't like is that he'll have to either plug it in, warm it up or have a cold drive to work. The heater's not going to blow anything but cold air in 4 miles otherwise. He also will get terrible fuel economy never warming it up. If I was in the same position I buy/stick with a gasser.

 

[HC]

Is it bad for it? Sure. Terrible! So bad in fact that he should never expect his rig to last 1 million miles like some do.



Let's see, at 75 miles per week, 1 million miles would be over 250 years of driving. If it lasts "only" 150,000 (a fraction of the 300 to 500,000 that most will last), then he should expect to replace the truck after "only" 38. 5 years of reliable service (from the engine).



I agree that for his application, the diesel is not ideal - high cost, louder (if he cares), need to cool turbo after each run, need to be careful to avoid smelly hands when refueling, and won't warm up and blow any heat before he gets to work, unless he plugs in, and so on. But if it is what he wants and can afford, and all those "little" things don't bother him then tell him he need not worry about "hurting" the engine.

 

[Leon R]

I suspect if he wants one because he likes yours it won't be long before it's bombed and he is pulling something with it which certainly won't be bad for it and will make up for those short trips.

 

[Pit Bull]

Tell him to buy it and join the TDR. He will fit right in with this group. No one here is normal.

 

[Dkevdog]

I drove my 96' for years 3 miles to and 3 miles from work. I think its BS if you tell me it hurts the engine:-{} . All it does is make for a real clean, low miles, used truck when it's time to sell it.



Kev

 

[nixter]

I love how Mr. Lsmith minces words. I have a short drive to work, only 2. 5 miles one way. I just take a longer route in the winter (it might show up yet this year). I also drive alot just for fun. Truck will outlast me most likely. Tell him to buy it and enjoy it. Life is too short to drive a boring vehicle.



Nixter

 

[klenger]

I'm normal. I am too normal. Yes I am. Because I said so.

 

[CumminsPower98]

My work is about 1. 5 miles one way but most days I end up running to town to get parts a few times. Town is another 2+ miles from work. It still doesn't always get up to temp even doing that. I do get in some longer trips of 100-200+ miles now and then so that helps a lot. I plug in also to give it an edge. My fuel mileage has been great at 19+ in the winter doing short tirps. I have been running Amsoil 5w30 Series 3000 HDD 12k miles between changes with analysis at every change. I always get 1. 0% fuel, . 05% water and suitable for continued use.

 

[RKohn]

Opinions are like (Censored)....

everybody's got one. Seems like mine got flamed.



Thanks LSMITH, but don't hold back next time.

 

[jmtandem]

short trips, low mileage

The old rule of thumb was that about 80 percent of the wear of an engine occurred in the first 10 minutes after start-up cold. That is why truck drivers tried to never shut off the engine as a little fuel burn was cheaper than rebuilds. Today oils, engine metals and tolerances are much better so I am not sure whether this rule of thumb is still reasonably accurate. Mostly, use the block heater in the winter for a couple hours for better defrost and heat earlier in the trip, and from virtually all threads in TDR don't over idle the engine when cold after start up.



The time to idle the engine for a few minutes is after a hard run to let the turbo bearings receive oil. The turbo spins at very high rpm's and shutting off the engine after a long hard climb shuts off the oil supply to the turbo that could spin for a minute or two after engine shut off.



I have found a wealth of good info on the TDR site and you can always call Cummins regional distributors with questions.

 

[fbaurley]

If thats what he wants them tell him to buy it. Another question is has this guy been around diesels much. After growing up around diesels all of my life I personally would not want to use any diesel for such short trips during the winter. On the farm we have both gas and diesel utility tractors, for winter time use I always use the gas, just due to the fact that the engine will warm up. The diesel is better, but the gas is a convenience item. I realize you cant justify owning 2 trucks, but if you want the diesel thats what youll have to put up with. As far as hurting the engine its probably not going to due much harm if oil is changed often to remove condensation.