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Are Synthetics Superior?

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Horsepower wars

First long tow...

From the book Synthetic Lubricants and High Performance Functional Fluids



The performance benefits demonstrated by the various tests that have been described are meaningful to the automotive engineer or tribologist, but the average consumer is most interested in how much savings the use of a PAO-based product is going to generate.

This case describes the results of one study that considered both the increased fuel economy and the extended oil drain interval made possible with part- and full-synthetic PAO crankcase oils. The original calculations have been updated to reflect current prices for gasoline and oil in North America. The calculations are based on 15,000 miles of driving and a “do-it-yourself” oil change regimen. A pump price of $1. 20/gal for gasoline has been chosen, and the oil has been priced at $1, $2, and $4/qt for the mineral oil, the part-synthetic, and the full-synthetic, respectively. If the oil is changed every 5,000 miles, there is almost no cost differential for the three oils because of the improved fuel economy gained with the synthetics. For the 15,000 mile distance, the savings over the mineral oil formulation is $3 with the part-synthetic oil, and a deficit of $3 is experienced with the full synthetic. If, however, there is only one drain for the full synthetic, the savings goes up to $11. In Europe, where gasoline is much more expensive and the differential in oil prices is less, the savings accrued by the use of synthetic crankcase oils will be much greater.



The use of lighter grades of crankcase oil is one answer to the need for increased fuel economy. The possible downside to this strategy would be a concurrent increase in oil consumption and the loss of sufficient high temperature viscosity for adequate engine protection. Studies show, however, that properly formulated PAO-based synthetic crankcase oils, with wide multigrade SAE performance classifications, can outperform mineral oil based formulations in both fuel and oil consumption, while maintaining superior engine protection.
 
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I don't use synthetics for the cost savings as much as I do for the way the vehicle runs. The engine starts better, and seems to have more power, especially while towing. Decreased friction should also reduce enging and drivetrain temps. I have been using synthetics for over 20 years (Amsoil and Mobil 1) and have always been pleased with the results. Trying to justify synthetics with cost savings is a loosing proposition IMHO.
 
I, too, do not use synthetic oil for the cost savings as far as fuel economy goes. I use it simply because of my driving requirements. If I were using non synthetic oil and changing every 3000-4000 miles I'd be changing every month. In my experiences I haven't found synthetics to be any more "slippery" than conventional oils. I have however found then to hold up longer than conventional oils. I prefer Exxon XD3 Elite. I have been running it in my truck since it has had 5000 miles on the odo. When I change my oil and do the tip of the finger analysis I see black dirt/soot suspended in "clear" oil. After 7000 miles per change that is all the proof I need. Only my opinion.



ps I am addicted to this site!
 
I was thinkng about synthetic and was convinced otherwise. I have a younger brother who owns his own tractor trailer. He has used both Dello and Mobil1 I believe. Doing extended oil changes with synthetic and regular changes and with both doing oil analysis. His conclusion wear not significantly higher with Dello, cost of oils and changes Dello cheaper, fuel milage almost the same. He is back using Dello or Rotella now over all cost lower. Of course with the miles he puts on after 3 to 5 years time to get an new tractor. Dello at 3750 to 4000 miles for me. As usual whatever works for you and your comfortable is really what counts. ;)
 
Things a little slow in Montana?

Illflem, you must have way too much time on you hands if you are out trolling with that article. But, maybe it is time for another oil debate/free for all/battle. It has been a while since this was argued.



Sam:D
 
The Delo is still brand new at 4000 miles! Chaging the Delo that early, the wear protection is going to be insignificant vs. the synthetic.

Extended drains, fuel mileage, long term ownership is where the synthetic will pay off.

Ease of starting under 30 degrees is nice too.



A Local trucking company with close to 500 trucks buys a generic "rot gut " oil, extends their drains to 16,000 miles, trades every 3 years. And besides"The new Cats leak oil so bad, we can't afford good oil"



I feel bad for the people buying those trades, but oh well.





Gene
 
I didn't see Bill's post as a "cruisin for a bruisin". It is a valid question... and very difficult to answer without preset biases or prejudices



Searching the web, I discovered some interesting data on by-pass filter systems. It rated the easily available system from Superior Wisconsin as the best. (Yes, that's the Amsoil system. )



I ordered synthetic engine oil (it is NOT a motor) and differential oil for the Cummins and engine oil for the Mommy Van from my local dealer (Thanks, Jerry!). The Mommy Van has been running synthetic "1" and I wasn't satisfied with that brand. Winter is nearing and the Cummins needs comfort in the cold winter.



Does anyone make synthetic power steering fluid?



-John
 
John, Valvoline makes semi-syn PS fluid, works great to eliminate cold weather squeal and is compatible with the OEM fluid, no need to suck every last drop of the old fluid out. Most auto parts sell it. Beware of recommendations to use syn ATF in your PS, even Amsoil doesn't recommend it.
 
<blockquote>&quot;... and very difficult to answer without preset biases or prejudices. &quot;<hr></blockquote>



<em>Beware of recommendations to use syn ATF in your PS, even Amsoil doesn't recommend it. </em>



Bill;

That is a good reminder for all.

I know the poop on power steering fluid versus ATF.

BUT

<em>Valvoline!</em>

Is that the only brand of PS aide out there? I have not had good luck with other products under that brand name.



Repeat after me &quot;preset bias and prejudice. &quot;



-John
 
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Valvoline!, I know what you mean John, but it does work well and is easy to come by. I'm sure there are probably others out there, but it's worked for me. The only other Valvoline product I use is 50 wt non-detergent oil, they seem to be the only one who makes it.
 
A while back I posted a comparison of amsoil 15-40 versus delo 15-40, both at 4,000 mi in my truck. Same commute, same driver, only 20 miles difference, etc. Oil Analyzers test results. both cases, same as I could make them.



From the wear metals point of view these were nearly identical. However the TBN numbers for the delo were not too high. From the info I got here the delo did not have to long to go before needing changed.



I am going for the drain intervals.
 
One thing that the study didn't mention is that that you should change the filter at the regular 5k interval with syn oil (I think? correct me if I'm wrong), that adds to the price, filter+ 1 qt oil so that you won't break even with petro oil as far as price goes.
 
<blockquote><em>One thing that the study didn't mention is that that you should change the filter at the regular 5k interval with syn oil ... </em></blockquote>



Interim filter changes!

I learned that trick from a college roommate's father 20 years ago. He drove a Mercury Vomet (that's how he promounced it... ) with about 200k on the clock. He had been running Mobil 1 for many miles. Changing the filter 7. 5k cleared the oil very well. He drained the pan and replaced the filter every 15k.



The Amsoil calculations I've seen include an interim filter change between pan drains.



I'll try the Valvoline power steering juice this winter. The power steering unit is outside of the new ESPAR unit envelope.



-John

<font size=1>where is the spell check?</font>
 
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I just like the idea of less cooking in the turbo bearings on a warm shutdown.



Otherwise I couldnt tell much difference from Delo to "syn". Im using bypass filtering also, and after 15k on either oil, the only difference I can tell is w/ Delo the truck burns NO oil and keeps that "new oil" sound (quiet). W/ "syn" it may be burning just a slight amount, but not a significant amount (maybe 1/4 quart max in 5k miles). Also sounds quiet.



Ive noticed that w/ rotella, after about 7k, the motor sounds slightly noisier & it definitely stinks worse from the breather tube when new.



I'd prefer using the cheaper Delo, if it wasnt for the extra protection of the turbo on shutdown. Thats the selling point for the "syn" right there. This is ONLY opinion, and have not checked the numbers via oil analysis. Probably should at least once.
 
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