Are We Ready For War?

[sdalton]

Originally posted by Royk

Just keep in mind that our longtime support of Isreal was the primary reason for the attacks on 9/11. Had we never supported Isreal, the arabs wouldn't hate us as they do and we would probably still be living in that pre 9/11 bliss.



-Roy

I personnally would rather take the higher moral ground and take the side of Israel. I would have supported Israel, whether I could have forseen the 9/11 attacks or not. You cant live in fear over what might happen, or choose your friends because others dont like them. Let me see..... Does Holocost ring a bell. The Jews werent liked much by many Europeans then either. Now it seems the Arabs(Muslems) dont want them around either.

I say start drilling in Alaska and other U. S. areas, back Israel, Kick Arab butt, and damm the price of oil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

['956Wheel]

Originally posted by Royk

Just keep in mind that our longtime support of Isreal was the primary reason for the attacks on 9/11. Had we never supported Isreal, the arabs wouldn't hate us as they do and we would probably still be living in that pre 9/11 bliss.



-Roy

If you do not stand for something you will fall for anything! What are you thinking! We, and others including Israel, are a democracy and that is why we back them and should do so.



Roy, I am your fellow American and if someone of a lesser intellect were to attack you should I change my agenda due to that act. Think brother think! UNITED WE STAND! If Israel falls we no longer have a SINCERE ally in that part of the world. The Saudi's have once again turned on us... . we just saved their butts a few years ago, they got the oil and our money yet will never be a democratic society or friend, they are holding us hostage with that slippery black stuff.



Pre 9/11 bliss? Where? Our embassies and other American interests are victim to these suicide bombers and you call it "pre 9/11 bliss! This is the thinking that allows terror to thrive.



I hate to disagree so strongly with you but simply see no sense in you post.



Please read any reputable source of knowledge and be certain to educate your loved ones... they are counting on you.



Mike

 

[Champane Flight]

Heads up.

I say we give up one of our many drives to the country and forget about the oil. We would sacrifice American lives for a gallon of diesel? Oh I forgot we have done that for decades.



How do you fight 17 year old girls with bombs strapped to them? Do you wipe out a whole race? Or maybe a whole religion? Unless we are willing to wipe out everyone, innocent (are there any left?), women, children, old men, young men, and take NO prisoners, we will still be in danger. How do you stop a ideal? They are doing telethons in Saudi right now for aid to the Palestinians (Most of procedes will most likely go to arms). Yet we continue to give them the bucks to donate to terror with every gallon of diesel and gas we burn.



We have to start using our heads instead of our hearts and think of a way to turn the anti-American tide over there. You have to stop the propaganda or turn it to our favor. As much as it will hurt, we need to shut our trucks down for a day and ride the bike or walk. Everyone is willing to give a buck to the fallen of 9/11, but asking them to make a personal sacrifice like cutting down on driving???? We would rather drill for oil in our backyards than give up just one dyno run or make our kids walk home from school or to soccer practice!



In Kuwait the kids in college are being taught by radical Muslims and have turned against the people that saved thier country just a short time ago. In Iran they were just starting to come around until GW did his hub of terror speech. Now they are listening to the radical faction again. We are now fighting Cockroaches (as our generals in Afganastan say) that scatter when confronted. This is just another name for guerilla warfare.



Is there a solid answer? I don't think so. We have chosen our bedfellows and should back them. I am afraid that the rest of our allies are going to back out when they see how the Isrealies take care of terror. The problem is that it isn't working either. As far as Israel being the higher moral ground? I don't think so, I think we are all in the soup and willing to throw morals out the window for our cause. No matter it be peace, land, religion, oil, or the almighty dollar. I hope we see peace again, it just isn't looking likely.

 

[Doc Tinker]

I have to agree that we need to draw back a little and conserve oil. America is an oil glutten. We have the power to laugh in Saddam Hussein's face by reducing our consumption during his oil embargo and let him and the other Arab countries know that we are able to step up to the plate, when they try to pull commodity terrorism.



Years ago, Sunday was a family day. Yes. . It was back in the days when malls and shopping centers were closed on Sunday. The only thing to do on Sunday was to attend church, have a big dinner, take a nap or a drive in the country and be with your family. Some of you are too young to remember days like that, but I'm telling you, they were precious times.



I propose that we start using Sunday as a family day again. Stay where you landed, with the family, for the day. If you want to travel, do it, but when Sunday arrives, don't go anywhere. Plan your day so you don't need to go shopping, cruising, out for dinner or what ever.



If every American returned to the old Sunday routine, we would save a buddle in oil. Enough, I'm sure, to show oil countries that we can control our oil diet.



Doc

 

['956Wheel]

Champane & Doc,



Yes, the American lifestyle has turned into a very wasteful, disposible society. As you travel on the roads look at the cars and occupants of them, what I see is most have just a driver. Also, if you need a loaf of bread (24 ounces) and a 1/2 gallon of milk most will take a two ton truck (ours are more) for a short drive to the market, lets try to get on our bikes or better yet walk and maybe meet a neighbor or two. When we stick together we can take on anything, we are, from what I see, a "fragmented" society. I too remember the rides in the old Mercury wagon (pink and white) all of us together for a ride to the beach. I do not understand what happened to the big get togethers that created so many fond memories. Are we too materialistic? Mom and Dad working and the kids are in "childcare", if you have no intention of raising them why bring them into the world? IMO



Champane brings up a very simple but most valid point, how do you fight a war when the enemy wants to die anyway? The way I see it we have little options and unfortunately many must die to obtain peace... "oxymoron"? maybe. Negotiate with terrorists? NEVER! Colin is a good man but should come home as his assignment is only going to heighten the effect of terror. What we have now is another "ethnic cleansing" and to allow it is not an option. Would we send Colin to talk with Slobidan? (sp) I don't think so.



We, as Americans are a country and people of morals that are often not found in "third world" countries that tend to be lost in time. These are a barbaric people whose respect and love for life is non existant and to us this is an unthinkable way of "life".



So, maybe its time to dust off my bicycle and go to the store so I can get breakfast!



Mike



Mike

 

[sdalton]

Re: Heads up.

Originally posted by Champane Flight





How do you fight 17 year old girls with bombs strapped to them? Do you wipe out a whole race? Or maybe a whole religion? Unless we are willing to wipe out everyone, innocent (are there any left?), women, children, old men, young men, and take NO prisoners, we will still be in danger. How do you stop a ideal? They are doing telethons in Saudi right now for aid to the Palestinians (Most of procedes will most likely go to arms). Yet we continue to give them the bucks to donate to terror with every gallon of diesel and gas we burn.



We have to start using our heads instead of our hearts and think of a way to turn the anti-American tide over there. You have to stop the propaganda or turn it to our favor.

In Kuwait the kids in college are being taught by radical Muslims and have turned against the people that saved thier country just a short time ago. In Iran they were just starting to come around until GW did his hub of terror speech. Now they are listening to the radical faction again. We are now fighting Cockroaches (as our generals in Afganastan say) that scatter when confronted. This is just another name for guerilla warfare.



Is there a solid answer? I don't think so. We have chosen our bedfellows and should back them. I am afraid that the rest of our allies are going to back out when they see how the Isrealies take care of terror. The problem is that it isn't working either. As far as Israel being the higher moral ground? I don't think so, I think we are all in the soup and willing to throw morals out the window for our cause. No matter it be peace, land, religion, oil, or the almighty dollar. I hope we see peace again, it just isn't looking likely.

I dont agree with all you say. I dont think we are thinking of oil. I do think that The USA has in the past and will continue in the future to take a moral stand. Democracy should be encouraged, that includes freedom of religion, without fear of death by practicing it. You can throw flowers at religious fanatics, no matter what their ages and expect to turn their opinion of us. To combat them you destroy their leadership, and anfrastructure. You break them, seperate them, deport them, set up a country only for them and dont give them an inch. Then you keep a close eye on them and knock the crap out of them if they try to start it up again. Then you will have definate borders and areas to attack.

Freedom and Democracy come at a high price sometimes, and WAR is a part of the price now and again. It is a shame some generations forget how precious freedom is, and how some people would rather stick their heads in the sand or run scared when presented with any bloodshed.

In war, innocents get killed, it cant be helped. You just try to lessen it when possible.

What makes the P. L. O. so repugnant is that they are targeting innocents.

 

['956Wheel]

SDalton,



What you write is fantastic..... but how can this plan be enacted? The "cancer" has grown due to ignorance... ignore being the key part of the word. Bin laden is doing his thing to the world in "support" of the Palistinians and his operations are international. Freedom is a double edged sword thus not only allowing the enemy here but giving him the right to practice his hate amongst us. Yes, we and our allys can counter and defeat these fanatics but we must allow unlimited operations, by us as well as others, to do so. The media was initialy squelched by our government to allow the element of surprise to not be destroyed. Now, we are so surprised that Israel is objecting to the medias mass presense in their battle fields! At what cost do you and I need to know??



The sad part of this whole mess, IMO, is that we are leaving our children a terrible place to start their lives. We cannot afford to compromise let alone lose the war on terror.



Mike

 

[BK]

We went over their with just cause... no doubt.

During desert storm, we held to the rules of engagment and did only what we said we would do in order to gain the support in the 1st place. We also asked real nicely that the Isreals hold their tongue and anger when Hussain (sp?) started lobing scuds into their neighboor hoods. . and they did.

Now that the the Palestinian terriorists are stepping up their actions, who are we to tell Isreal to back off... . while we're over in Afganastan doing the same thing?



I don't have an answer for the whole mess, I'm not too happy with some of the things Isreals govt has done to us in the past. But I can't see how we can tell them what todo.



I think we should have overthrown Hussian and called Iraq a province. Put up some big freakin walls and invited those to leave that didn't want to stay, and let those stay that wanted to stay.



It's getting worse now and sure to get worse with the Saudi's are backing the Palistinians and holding telethones to raise funds for them.



Here comes WWIII

 

[sdalton]

956 and BK, freedom usually comes at a great cost, initially. But, you have to start somewhere. It seems to me that ever since WWII the battles that we have fought have been in the hands of the liberal media and pacifist leaders. Those leaders that were not afraid of war were afraid of the electorate. Worldwide terrorism is hear because of complacency and compromise.



It is time to take a stand and do everything overtly, and covertly possible, to accomplish our goal. I think the best thing to get a start is to reign in the coverage the media has regarding terrorism. Also to eliminate their presence in battle zone and war torn areas.



This was to be a short post but subjects such as these get me upset. Time to start calling, writing, and emailing our congressmen. (maybe bugging them and letting them know they will be out of a job if they dont start doing their job, might get them going).



Nuff Said





Scott

 

[BK]

Scott...



"956 and BK, freedom usually comes at a great cost, initially. But, you have to start somewhere. It seems to me that ever since WWII the battles that we have fought have been in the hands of the liberal media and pacifist leaders. Those leaders that were not afraid of war were afraid of the electorate. Worldwide terrorism is hear because of complacency and compromise. "



I agree... . no doubt there, if Clinton wasn't such a ***** and just worried about getting some *****... this would have happened earlier. . but I feel he didn't want it to happen on his watch and he didn't want to deal with it, so you did what he could to push it off , AT GREAT COST to loved ones.





"It is time to take a stand and do everything overtly, and covertly possible, to accomplish our goal. I think the best thing to get a start is to reign in the coverage the media has regarding terrorism. Also to eliminate their presence in battle zone and war torn areas. "



I have zero problem with what's happening and why I don't think we should be telling Isreal's govt what they can and cant do. We don't have to back it, but we don't have add to our problems either. Let them take care if their business. Lord knows in the past (except for the gulf war) when we did try and butt in , it costs us with them. Thats a war that's far older than our govt is and the PLO is practicing terrorism... . how can we tell Isreal to stop... why are we there? same issue... stop terrorism.



I have no problem with covert operations and such. But we fight on the name of freedom, if WE are to remove the reporters from the war zone, we'd be pretty hypocritical (geez SP? on that one). . I'm sure we are practicing miss-information Via actions while other things happen. . fine. BUT I think we need to reign in the people in congress and such that leak secure information and plans to the press and because of the politcal tit for tat that going on.

(the press has no idea what info is labeled secret or not, I'm probably the last person that would defend the press, but we can't make them the watch dogs of secure information cause some of our reps in govt are @#$@)

Some of these elected and sworn in officials have done more damage then the media has when trying to make the "opposite" (arent we all in the same country) party look bad.





"This was to be a short post but subjects such as these get me upset. Time to start calling, writing, and emailing our congressmen. "



Forget about letter writing, if I ever voilated my security clearance to 1% of what these fools did, I'd be sitting behind bars. Time to start arresting these swarn in fouls for the things they are doing that they feel they are above the law for. Such as I spoke about above.



And don't get me going about the church and not handing in the pedophiles they've been protecting for the last 40 years. I was brought up in the catholic church, so no one can say I'm being prejudice. Every single member of the church that protected these @#$@ and helped cover it up should be arrested. It's amazing how above the law they are acting. Two weeks ago they told the DA that they would review their files and if they felt they should hand someone over, that they felt was maybe dangerous, they would. ????????? so they have known pedophiles, but are deciding who's dangerous. Next they said they know of no one else... and a week later a family brought up a priest on charges. . and the church said "oh ya. . we were gonna tell you about him... "... come on... I'm sorry, to jail they all go. They viloated the 1st sactanty in my eyes. . Childern and Family and the 2nd Trust... . of all places someone is supposed to feel loved and protected. . Church or your place of worship.

One might argue that the pedophile is "ill in the mind". . fine what ever. . I don't care. . he did wrong to a child. . off to jail he goes. . remove the threat. BUT whats the excuss for those that protected this "ill in the mind" pedophile... . Off to jail they should all go... and let them find out what it's like to be helpless and alone with someone that's gonna violate you. They might think they are holyer than thou... but they aint... there is no reason they should be above the law and most definantly in this case... there's no arguement.



-Burning in NY. .

 

[Champane Flight]

Open

Let the press see it. We need to make a statement of our goals to begin with, then go in and take care of buisness. Sorry, but I feel that there are no inocents left. If you are a family member or a friend of a terrorist you are dead. Let the news media report this. Maybe just maybe, it will stem the tide of idiot fanatics that want thier family members to blow themselves up for the cause. War is war, and does not stop because someone holds thier hand up and says stop! It stops when one side surrenders, or is gone! You do not say we have a war on terror on Monday, then Saturday change your mind. Let the news media go into these areas and show the world how the Isrealies that care of it. If they get shot or killed doing it. THEY made the choice to go into danger.



Everyone wants peace, me more than others. I just refuse to roll over when it gets rough.

 

['956Wheel]

a lot to it

What about China? Who has and has not got nuclear capibility? Why all the sympathy for the Palistinians in Europe and other seemingly friendly nations? Why on earth are we negotiating with a terrorist? Should Colin had met with Bin Laden before our military action?



More questions than answers? You Bet! IMO the longer we wait and allow the enemy to prepare, through telethons and other support we risk the opportunity to make future action a timely success. Yes, the media is not just a information group, they are in fact a tool for the enemy. Was it 500 or just 5 that died in the "massacre"? Do they have your sympathy? NOT MINE!



We have telethons to wage war on disease, these illerates do so to wage war on peace!



I feel better now



Mike