Artic Air Twins At The Dyno

[SHobbs]

Glad to see a twins set up in my price range, finally. Might be worth looking into being that it is half the cost of the others. I am curious as to which turbos are used in this set up.

 

[Jeff_K]

Glad to see a twins set up in my price range, finally. Might be worth looking into being that it is half the cost of the others. I am curious as to which turbos are used in this set up.

Your stock turbo and an HT3B are used in the AA twins. That is why its cheaper, you are only buying one turbo.

 

[AK RAM]

I personally wouldn't want to do it, but using the stock turbo on top isn't the worst idea. However, to put a stock turbo on top without an external gate to bypass it and keep drive pressures in check is just wrong. It is hard to tell from the pictures, but that looks like what they are going. I don’t see an external gate. I believe I would pay the extra cash for Mark Kendrick's twins before I purchased the AA twins. Basically the same deal, stock turbo with a B2 on the bottom, but Mark puts in an external gate. I believe an external gate is key with the top turbo being so small.



However, if their claims are accurate (read their FAQ page and do your own gut check), it seems to be working.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

There were 3 trucks today at the D/FW dyno event out of Chris's shop and yes I looked at one Twin truck, nice setup and for what he is doing with it(50psi) it's seems fine to me.



Jim

 

[lilthumper]

Jim, did you dyno?

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Yep, kinda lame for me 657 on #2, 715 with water.



Jim

 

[RChamberlain]

Yep, kinda lame for me 657 on #2, 715 with water.



Jim

Kinda lame that good

 

[Relentless Diesel]

It's been a while since I've posted on here, but it was great seeing all of you again at the dyno event yesterday. I got to see Deezul1, TractorNut, Jim, James (inarush76), Cody Bruner, Kouzaz, Robinson. The list goes on and on. I've haven't had time to make any TDR events or even post for a couple of years now and yesterday made me realize just how much I missed the people of the TDR and its events.



Jim, you left too early and missed the fun stuff. One of my customers (658HP, 7380 lbs) got into a street race with that 730HP, 6700 lbs Duramax. Hopefully someone will have some video footage of it that I can download. It was a VERY close race. Both drivers claimed victory by a bumper, but who really knows. We had a great time watching! No one broke or got thrown in jail so we all won.



We took 4 Common rail dodges with various tunes. They dyno'd 707, 658, 598 and 535 respectively. The top three we all running a set of arctic air twin turbos.



I've had several calls and questions about drive pressure without running an external wastegate.



Our testing showed backpressure at 50 psi boost is 67 psi. Depending on the truck's fueling capability they run between 48-56 psi boost.



We did calculations on the HP lost from the extra 17 psi of backpressure (over a 1:1 setup) on the engine and decided it was worth it for the cost savings and increased simplicity of the system to leave the external wastegate off.



From the first day we started this twin project, we planned on offering an economical set of twin turbos that would handle everything the stock CP3 can deliver. Whenever someone develops a high pressure pump that will deliver more than 1100 mm^3/rev, we will offer an upgrade kit for those that are after more power and less drivability. This will consist of a larger top turbo and the different hot pipe required to adapt it into the system.



Personally, I haven't seen the need for the larger turbo yet.



I hope this answers most of your questions. During the week I have very little time to read the TDR, so don't expect a speedy reply to any direct questions on this forum.



Again, it was good seeing you guys again,

-Chris

 

[qzilla]

It's been a while since I've posted on here, but it was great seeing all of you again at the dyno event yesterday. I got to see Deezul1, TractorNut, Jim, James (inarush76), Cody Bruner, Kouzaz, Robinson. The list goes on and on. I've haven't had time to make any TDR events or even post for a couple of years now and yesterday made me realize just how much I missed the people of the TDR and its events.



Jim, you left too early and missed the fun stuff. One of my customers (658HP, 7380 lbs) got into a street race with that 730HP, 6700 lbs Duramax. Hopefully someone will have some video footage of it that I can download. It was a VERY close race. Both drivers claimed victory by a bumper, but who really knows. We had a great time watching! No one broke or got thrown in jail so we all won.



We took 4 Common rail dodges with various tunes. They dyno'd 707, 658, 598 and 535 respectively. The top three we all running a set of arctic air twin turbos.



I've had several calls and questions about drive pressure without running an external wastegate.



Our testing showed backpressure at 50 psi boost is 67 psi. Depending on the truck's fueling capability they run between 48-56 psi boost.



We did calculations on the HP lost from the extra 17 psi of backpressure (over a 1:1 setup) on the engine and decided it was worth it for the cost savings and increased simplicity of the system to leave the external wastegate off.



From the first day we started this twin project, we planned on offering an economical set of twin turbos that would handle everything the stock CP3 can deliver. Whenever someone develops a high pressure pump that will deliver more than 1100 mm^3/rev, we will offer an upgrade kit for those that are after more power and less drivability. This will consist of a larger top turbo and the different hot pipe required to adapt it into the system.



Personally, I haven't seen the need for the larger turbo yet.



I hope this answers most of your questions. During the week I have very little time to read the TDR, so don't expect a speedy reply to any direct questions on this forum.



Again, it was good seeing you guys again,

-Chris

I guess its good that a twin turbo, propane, nitrous breathing truck can hang with a stock chargered Dmax on the bottle. I wished I would have been there now!



They said that you guys have another Dodge that is dang fast as well! I am glad someone is finally getting some more 3rd gens running!



Jim,



I would not say that 715 is bad in the heat and the air you guys had yesterday. It was flat out miserable for making power.



I think the TX guys need to start hitting some of the May Madness, Indy and other events. It always seems that 65x wins the dyno events, and we had 3 over 700! :--)



I may need a set of twins soon as I am not sure if I feel like building another set. If I do I will call ya!



Quad

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I would not say that 715 is bad in the heat and the air you guys had yesterday. It was flat out miserable for making power.



Yep I guess so, I figured with a 215 pump that I should be in the high 6's and more over 7 with water, that's why when Jim did a 730 I knew is was in trouble, we had fun with it, I was even laughing and saying (crap... . were's Jim) while I was still on the dyno, couldn't think of a better person to loose too.



Chris, I hated to leave that early too but it was miserable and we still had a 300 mile trip to go, heck I usually miss the fun anyway... ... ... BOTW, that intersection towards the road can be driven through at an angle after blowing the stop sign... ..... I should have just drove off easy.



Jim

 

[SHobbs]

I personally wouldn't want to do it, but using the stock turbo on top isn't the worst idea. However, to put a stock turbo on top without an external gate to bypass it and keep drive pressures in check is just wrong. It is hard to tell from the pictures, but that looks like what they are going. I don’t see an external gate. I believe I would pay the extra cash for Mark Kendrick's twins before I purchased the AA twins. Basically the same deal, stock turbo with a B2 on the bottom, but Mark puts in an external gate. I believe an external gate is key with the top turbo being so small.



However, if their claims are accurate (read their FAQ page and do your own gut check), it seems to be working.

Why is using the stocker a bad idea? If you have an HX35 with an upgraded housing from 12cm to 14cm why would it not make a good top turbo. I would like to have a set of twins and 2800 is better for my budget than 4400. If you wastegate it like you said and you are not building boost past the 50lbs mark it should be ok or am I wrong on that. I know for me I could do it this way and have the twins running while I save up to do the work on the headgasket and studs for more boost later.

 

[Jeff_K]

SHobbs, there is nothing wrong with using the stock turbo as a top turbo, but what AK RAM is saying is that if there is not external wastegate then all the flow must gor through the top turbo's small housing and internal wastegate. When trying to push that much flow through a small turbo, you will more than likely be overspooling it and will also drastically increase your drive pressures. The AA twins (from what I hear / see in pics) does not use an external gate on the top turbo, therefore is pushing the limits of both drive pressures and the top turbo IMO. As far as I know, they are using blow off valves to control boost at 50psi. From Chris's post earlier, the drive pressure at 50psi is 67psi or (1. 35:1) which is awful high for a twin setup. Most big singles are lower than that.



All that aside, the trucks running their twins have been laying down some serious power both on #2 and drugs. Personally however, I prefer to have a set of twins that runs closer to 1:1 drive/boost pressure up to 60+ psi. A setup with an external wastegate will help achieve that for me. Other twin builders offer similar setups using external gates and your stock turbo for roughly the same price. Look into Power by Poole and Mark Kendrick's twins also as an option.

 

[SHobbs]

Gotcha. Good place to start though, could always upgrade the top turbo later. I know for me this would help me get into a set a little quicker.

 

[Jeff_K]

Also remember that your stock head gasket (2nd gen) will not hold near the pressure that the 3rd gens can. It is pretty much accepted that the 3rd gen MLS gasket with stock studs can hold up to 75psi. Not sure about the 2nd gens, but I know it is much lower than that. So keep in mind 50psi boost is really like 67psi to the head gasket because of the drive pressure ratio. Their website says that you can run their twins without head mods, but I am sure that is for the 3rd gen only. Best to call them and find out what is required for a 2nd gen.

 

[RCC]

I redynoed at a event in dallas this weekend at went 658hp. I wish their torque indicator was working better,so all i got was horsepower. There was another truck from relentless diesel with the same twins that went 707hp. I even ended up racing a 730hp duramax, it was a good race but no one could call it at the end so we will be meeting again at another event.

 

[AK RAM]

I redynoed at a event in dallas this weekend at went 658hp.

What TST/EZ settings are giving you your best hp numbers?

 

[RCC]

To answer my box settings question, i run as follows:edge ez=level 3,the tst makes best power on level 6. As far as quadzillas claim about my truck having propane,i do not,i have had it in the past but i get to many bad side effects with it. The people at the lewisville dyno meet might of thought i had propane because of a black nozzle and hose running in my air intake,but that is part of my nitrous kit. I was too cheap to buy a kit so i built one out of some old methanol injected blower motor parts.

 

[Tomeygun]

Is the TST/EZ the only fueling mods? Or do you have any n2o, or injectors?

To answer my box settings question, i run as follows:edge ez=level 3,the tst makes best power on level 6. As far as quadzillas claim about my truck having propane,i do not,i have had it in the past but i get to many bad side effects with it. The people at the lewisville dyno meet might of thought i had propane because of a black nozzle and hose running in my air intake,but that is part of my nitrous kit. I was too cheap to buy a kit so i built one out of some old methanol injected blower motor parts.

So the 600+ hp runs are with Nitrous?

I asked you on the first page, but you mentioned wanting injectors... nothing about running N20...



not thats its bad, But I was bragging to a few friends that a 3rd gen with only 2 chips and twins made 600+hp...



So... was the funny gas flowing on the 658hp run?

 

[KBennett]

So the 600+ hp runs are with Nitrous?

I asked you on the first page, but you mentioned wanting injectors... nothing about running N20...



not thats its bad, But I was bragging to a few friends that a 3rd gen with only 2 chips and twins made 600+hp...



So... was the funny gas flowing on the 658hp run?

I was telling a guy at the Cummins Truck Fest this weekend about the the 600HP run. I hope you were running#2 only otherwise I left an important piece out. I don't care if you were running NOS or not but we need all the details when you post your results.

 

[Tomeygun]

I was telling a guy at the Cummins Truck Fest this weekend about the the 600HP run. I hope you were running#2 only otherwise I left an important piece out. I don't care if you were running NOS or not but we need all the details when you post your results.

RcCox, So are ya juicing with giggle gas to get 600+ ??



Inquiring minds want to know