as they say, I voted with my feet

[swalls]

so after months of shopping and research, I decided that the additional initial outlay and expense of purchasing and maintaining a diesel-powered light truck was not the best option for me at this time. I don't tow often enough or heavy enough to absolutely require the torque, or even a 3/4 ton truck. As for mileage, if you put a pencil to it, the improved mileage from a smoker doesn't pay off unless you intend to keep the rig for at least 100K miles; especially with diesel prices running about 15-20 cents above unleaded. I do not believe ANY of the Big 3 have made a realiable diesel transmission yet; Ford & GM are a lot closer to that point than Dodge however... . Bosch can't get the crud out of the CRD, seems to have about a 12-15% failure rate regardless of what engine it is installed in, so even the Cummins, the most reliable engine ever installed in a light truck, can still be done in by 1 leaking injector, and seems to be doing so at about a 12-15% rate. Plus the third-gen Dodges are just plain... . plain... plain. The last one I looked at was a fully-loaded Lariat, and I honest to gosh think those cheap seats and plain-Jane interior came straight out of a 1974 International Scout. Dodge had the best-looking truck on the market, and then turned some frustrated interior designer loose on them, IMHO. I don't see much improvement on the steering gear either. For me, all of this just adds up to... . don't buy another diesel at this point.

So I took a long hard look at the half-tons, drove and crawled under all 3 brands (I don't consider the Toyota & Nissan to be contenders; they just took their little golf cart-mobiles, put a hot engine in them, and stretched the frame) Anyways, guess what... I really do think the F-150 is the best 1/2 ton out there. (If you REALLY wonder why I think that, go by your Ferd dealer and get the DVD about 1/2 ton trucks. ) So I traded in old Silver and drove home a new F150 4x4 today. . I guess we'll see how I feel about this after summer vacation towing in the Rockies :-laf :-laf but right now it feels pretty good.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I seriously doubt I'd have a diesel in the emerging fuel price spiral, if we didn't have the 5th wheel. We do frequently need a pickup of some sort tho', for occasional hauling not suited to a SUV. The import trucks seem nice in terms of appearance and reliability - but the $$$ are WAAAAY out there...



Nothing wrong with a Ford gasser - we have a '05 Ford Escape SUV that I like very well - and if it wasn't for the F-150, Ford MIGHT have gone the way of Packard and Studebaker...



Good luck with your choice, and do keep us posted!

 

[LMcCary]

With that Ford 4X4 gasser, hope plan your gas stations close together. Having driven and serviced a lot of Fords, and they all have one thing in common. They love gas.

 

[Hercules130]

if i didn't want a deisel so bad i definately would have gone with the 150.

 

[JHardwick]

I tow way too much to consider this, but I'd seriously look at the Toyota if I could get away with it. I owned an SR5 with 22r and 5 speed that I put 33's on and had a ball with. I can't remember what year it was, '84 maybe, but it was the last year for the straight front axle ... ... ... ... . seriously fun truck.

 

[IC Smoke]

I guess we'll see how I feel about this after summer vacation towing in the Rockies but right now it feels pretty good.

What do ya plan on towing? do you tow alot? and how long do you plan on keeping this new rig?



IMO the resale and reliability of a diesel outweighs a gasser even down to the small 1/4 truck TOYotas I agree its alot to spend to maintain, fuel, and generally own a diesel but I dont know youre situation so maybe a SUV and a small trailer would work good?



Dad has his 99 durango that he just drives himself, but now and then we all pack into it and take off. But the back seats folding down works good for misc junk (trust me dad fills it up) and what he cant carry in the cab he hooks to his own 9' trailer and away he goes. (better fuel than a pickup, and alot more uses in the combo) But since my newest addition to the pack hes been eyeballing a 05-06 quad cab short bed 4x4 CTD Oo. (My hands are egar to get it to fly! )



Best of luck with your choice!

(I am guilty of KINDA liking the new 05 ferd super poopy styling)



Ian

 

[Matt400]

Just a heads up. . in our shop we see more transmission failures on the F-150/Expeditions than what is behind diesels. The modular V8 in those is known for pulling the threads when removing the spark plugs, Ford recommends a head when that happens vs inserts on that style head oh and the heads are so expensive for just a little more you can get a reman motor when all you wanted was a tune up.



But your right- its more cushy on the inside. Enjoy it for 90K and then start looking or it will get into your pocket book. And to think I was once a die hard FOMOCO guy.

 

[bulabula]

SWalls, if your Ford gives you a warm and fuzzy, thats what its all about! Free choice. Its nice to see someone do the business case analysis. Heck, when I did it way back when, it said gasser too. But I wanted to be a diesel sniffer - fuel be darned!



If I didn't have 3 motorcycles, a 'Stang, a gas guzzling boat and some youngin's getting ready for college - I'd have a new F150 in the driveway myself.

 

[Texasrattler]

Swalls,



I wish you luck with your FORD 150. I traded an 02' FX 4x4 in on my Dodge. I bled Ford blue for years, but the F-150 was the last straw. An overhead cam engine doesnt belong in a truck. I had the 5. 4 which blows plugs leaks and many other problems. New engine at 400 miles. They have to pull the body off the truck to change engines, or just to replace heads which happens often. That's minimum of 4 hours labor each way before the start the fix. Takes 4 to 8 hours to change plugs (if the dealer replaces the back two, almost impossible to get to). Think we have ball joint probles, Fords are worse and you have to replace the whole A-arm. God forbid if you have to pull heads with the overhead cams. Warranty service and maintenace costs are worse than Dodge. Ford looses 500 master mechanics each year (according to dealer magazines) because they won't them fix the trucks right. I could go on but ...



Pete

 

[B.G. Smith]

I think it's a little early to panick. I believe diesel prices will eventually come back into line with gasoline, if not then gasoline will follow the jump in diesel prices and were right back where we started. 10, 11 or 12 mpg with diesel while towing is still preferred (at least by me) over the 6, 7 and 8 mpg with some gasoline rigs. Been there, done that. bg

 

[Bertram65]

Good luck with your Ford, hope posting about how bad the Dodge trucka are makes you feel better about your purchase, it would take more than that for me to feel right about purchasing a half ton gas truck.

 

[rbattelle]

Swalls, I sincerely wish you the best of luck with the F-150. If I were in the market for a 1/2 ton, that's what I'd buy. I think they are VERY nice... especially that interior! Plus I like the fact that the hood and some suspension parts are aluminum (I like aluminum).



Very nice looking truck. Now if only they offered one with a 4bt in it... hmmm... .



-Ryan

 

[TFucili]

Just a heads up. . in our shop we see more transmission failures on the F-150/Expeditions than what is behind diesels. The modular V8 in those is known for pulling the threads when removing the spark plugs, Ford recommends a head when that happens vs inserts on that style head oh and the heads are so expensive for just a little more you can get a reman motor when all you wanted was a tune up.



But your right- its more cushy on the inside. Enjoy it for 90K and then start looking or it will get into your pocket book. And to think I was once a die hard FOMOCO guy.

I too was a blue oval die hard, then got a string of lemons culminating with an Expedition. Multiple coil-pack failures, coolant leaks, puked transmission(zero towing) at 11K miles, head gaskets at 15k. That's just the highlights.



Best of luck with ol' Henry...

 

[dpatt67]

So Ford is still putting out videos trying to show how bad their competitors are, huh? I sold Dodge's in the early to mid 90's and Ford had made a video showing the new for 94 Ram falling apart on a Ford testing course. i saw it with a buddy who sold fords. Apparently this video made a lot of people question Dodge because anyone who had been to the Ford store first brought this up to me. It looked fake to me and sure enough, it was. Ford had loosened everything on the truck(hood, fenders, headlights, bumper, etc), and going over a bunch of ruts it looked like a POS. Chrysler threatened to sue if the video wasn't pulled. It finally was, but the damage had been done.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Hope you enjoy your ford. I had a 65 F250 for ten years and it was a great truck... . slow, with 455 and 456 axles, but great. Had to rebuild the motor at 150K.

improved mileage from a smoker doesn't pay off unless you intend to keep the rig for at least 100K miles

Guess mine will pay off then.



I know we all rationalize our decisions... but let's not stretch it:

• 1. "reliable transmission" - The NV56000 has a very good track record.
  
• 2. "10%-12% injector failure rate" - Please reference your statistics source.
  
• 3. "diesel prices" - Diesel prices were less than gas for a long long time. I'm hoping the recent spike will level out back to where we were previously,i. e. maybe not as low but still comparable to gas.
  

Perhaps, you got one of the F150 that will not experience spontaneous combustion. :-laf



Good luck and adios.

 

[Scooby]

Good luck with the F150. Nice interior... . but you won't be saving any money on gas - that's for sure - especially when the weather heats up and diesel prices fall below gasoline prices. My buddy had a new F150 that sits in the driveway most of the time because the mileage is so poor he can't stand to drive it.



The only thing I can't stand about the F150 is the bed rail height - just way out of proportion when looking from a rear 3/4 view (in my opinion).

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Guys, I bought my first Dodge/Cummins in '91, in SPITE of serious apprehensions as to the overall quality of the basic truck itself - the Cummins sold me. I had VERY serious concerns about the sheetmetal, paint and interior, based upon what I had seen in Dodge trucks first hand thru the 60's and 70's...



Happy to say, my '91 was a SUPER truck on all counts, to the extent I really balked at "upgrading" to the '02 - and taking a chance my next Dodge experience might not be as satisfying - so far so good!



ALL makers have their own specific weak areas and associated failures - places like these forums typically see more of the trouble issues because solutions is WHY many are here in the first place - just as the dealer service bays are where most all the problems come in to roost. And while percentages of failures vary from one maker to another, and from one year-madel to another - DC has it's own fair share JUST LIKE the rest!



I made my first choice to Dodge/Cummins in '91, and again in '02 - based upon MY needs and expectations, NOT out of any misguided brand loyalty - and could as easily go to GM or Ford next time if THEY fit my needs better at that point in time.



Let's respect the choices others make - be as happy for THEIR decision as you would like them to be with YOURS, and NOT try to rub salt in a wound that isn't even there yet!

 

[RTuvell]

so after months of shopping and research, I decided that the additional initial outlay and expense of purchasing and maintaining a diesel-powered light truck was not the best option for me at this time. I don't tow often enough or heavy enough to absolutely require the torque, or even a 3/4 ton truck. As for mileage, if you put a pencil to it, the improved mileage from a smoker doesn't pay off unless you intend to keep the rig for at least 100K miles; especially with diesel prices running about 15-20 cents above unleaded. I do not believe ANY of the Big 3 have made a realiable diesel transmission yet; Ford & GM are a lot closer to that point than Dodge however... . Bosch can't get the crud out of the CRD, seems to have about a 12-15% failure rate regardless of what engine it is installed in, so even the Cummins, the most reliable engine ever installed in a light truck, can still be done in by 1 leaking injector, and seems to be doing so at about a 12-15% rate. Plus the third-gen Dodges are just plain... . plain... plain. The last one I looked at was a fully-loaded Lariat, and I honest to gosh think those cheap seats and plain-Jane interior came straight out of a 1974 International Scout. Dodge had the best-looking truck on the market, and then turned some frustrated interior designer loose on them, IMHO. I don't see much improvement on the steering gear either. For me, all of this just adds up to... . don't buy another diesel at this point.

So I took a long hard look at the half-tons, drove and crawled under all 3 brands (I don't consider the Toyota & Nissan to be contenders; they just took their little golf cart-mobiles, put a hot engine in them, and stretched the frame) Anyways, guess what... I really do think the F-150 is the best 1/2 ton out there. (If you REALLY wonder why I think that, go by your Ferd dealer and get the DVD about 1/2 ton trucks. ) So I traded in old Silver and drove home a new F150 4x4 today. . I guess we'll see how I feel about this after summer vacation towing in the Rockies :-laf :-laf but right now it feels pretty good.

Okay, whatever, so you decided against a diesel. That's your choice.



But before you leave, will you please provide a reference that will substantiate your claim: "Bosch can't get the crud out of the CRD, seems to have about a 12-15% failure rate regardless of what engine it is installed in". This is the first time I have heard anyone make such a claim and then put a % on it. You're not just tossing in a grenade on your way out are you?

 

[Matt400]

[*]3. "diesel prices" - Diesel prices were less than gas for a long long time. I'm hoping the recent spike will level out back to where we were previously,i. e. maybe not as low but still comparable to gas.

[/list]

I'm not too worried. . I look at it this way- driving the CTD getting 19. 5 mpg I could pay $4. 50 gallon and my fuel expence would be the same as if I were driving my old 10 mpg F-350 at todays gas price.

 

[QWaller]

Call me weird, but I like the new interior of the Dodge. One of the reasons for th purchase. I like the plain, no nonsense truck-like appearance. Guess I am old fashioned. I used to drive OTR trucks and I feel right at home climbing in and rowing the gears. Good luck with your Ford. I can't buy one on principle. Watching past handling of safety issues, they appear quite "blameless" (ex Ford Exploders vs. Firestone) most of the time. I know, I know, all of the companies do this, it just seems that Ford shines brightest in this area.