as they say, I voted with my feet

[DocDetonancour]

Four years from now see how much of the "savings" on the diesel engine price reflects in market value between the two!

 

[Matt400]

http://www.ford-trucks.com/



Is a great place to enjoy your new Ford while at the keyboard. I don't say that to be mean cuz it really is, I have even posted there for a friend of mine who has one.

 

[swalls]

[/Quote]My statement about the reliability of the NV5600 still stands.



Bill Kondolay's in-depth diagnosis of the 48RE still stands as well. Here is the post from DTT's website: http://www.dieseltrans.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=473



Finally, the question which begs an answer is do you, Mr. swalls, have a life other than purposely deciding to post messages that you know will enflame the passions of folks here on the TDR? Folks here abouts seem to be happy with their decision to purchase a CTD and most have told you that it is fine that you found another truck that make you happy. Therefore, what is your purpose in responding in such a negative manner if you really don't care? Perhaps, it would be a pleasant thing if you would wander off and enjoy your truck with likeminded folks and let us enjoy this TDR site. Personally, it is time for me to wander off and enjoy other more constructive threads. [/QUOTE]



As I said, it's the people who are "enflamed" by any constructive criticism of the Dodge light-duty truck (or any other brand; Ford & Chevy have their "my-truck-is-my-world" fire eaters also) who need a life... it's a collection of inaminate pieces designed for a specific purpose ; not your mother, family, girlfriend, or dog. Getting the right vehicle for the right reasons is a major purchasing decision for most of us, and discussion of that was the intent of this post. Some of the TDR posters are way too emotional to discuss the Turbo Diesel's good and bad points in a reasonable and polite manner, and that applies whether it's getting the "right" brand of aftermarket auto transmisson or the "right" power chip. I didn't post seeking anybody's approval for my purchasing decision (unless you want to help me make the monthly payments :-laf ) As Gary specifically has pointed out, this is a public discussion forum, and I paid my 35 bucks just like the rest of you (and have been a lot more polite & reasonable than several of the others in this thread, to say the least. ) If I had posted something like "all 3rd gen owners are anal-retentive freaks" you'd have a valid reason for emotional overreaction and being "enflamed. " Please refer to the sticky about "be civil. "



I appreciate the comments people have made about the weak points of the F150... it's not the perfect truck, but I do think it's the best of the 1/2 tons right now. 1) Purchasing a half-ton that half-a**ed suits my needs & situation at this point is a better decision buying than a much more expensive diesel that I am not half-satisfied with. 2) The Dodge diesel has some weak points that sorely need to be addressed, and maybe they will be if ENOUGH of us point this out to Dodge. . I did explain this fully to the Dodge dealership I worked with on the possible purchase of a new 05. Do you think Dodge just MIGHT read this forum? My concerns about the Bosch CRD injectors' realiability, the 48RE automatic, the 70 MPH drivetrain vibration, and the el cheapo seats have specifically cost Dodge the sale of a one (1) 2005 4X4 2500 $42,000 SLT or $46500 Laramie Turbodiesel this time around. If the truck didn't have those problems, you can darn sure bet I would have been driving one right now instead of the F150. Maybe that's just one grain of sand on the beach... but at least I have made the effort to let DMC KNOW in a public forum what *I* think is wrong about their current truck, and let them KNOW that *I* am not buying one until these problems are addressed. That's why the thread is called "voting with my feet" or more to the point " my pocketbook. ") For you guys that own a 3rd gen and don't have any of these problems, I am glad for you. . I sincerely hope your trucks do NOT develop the problems mentioned; ESPECIALLY after they go out of waranty. TDR member "ceaman" two posts about the two engine failures was very impressive to me... I'm not a risk taker... in my daily work, I see too many bad results of "percentage failures" caused by design problems and cost-cutting decisions... . Those problems are the basic points of this thread, NOT TO IRRITATE PEOPLE :-{} ; and I would hope you other guys would chime in and let DODGE know that "we ain't gonna take it no more" Oo.

 

[Wiredawg]

Good Luck!

I guess I'll throw in my two cents here:



SWALLS: Good luck on the Ford... I hope it serves you well. I read your post, accepted your opinion, and I press on with my own opinion. You did not offend me or my trucks.



I read lots of information posted here but AS far as statistics go, I tend to take them w/ a grain of salt until I see how many samples have been taken over how much time or distance. I'm not throwing rocks at anyone's surveys, just stating that it takes a lot of samples to develop solid statistics. Hypothetically, if there have been 800,000 trucks manufactured over two and a half years (3d gen), say 1,500 owners are members of the TDR and 30 TDR members have injector failures, you can't necessarily correlate the precentage of TDR members having injector failures to the total number of trucks manufactured. It is worth taking note there are failures occuring and what the symptoms are though.



So, with that being said, I think I'll continue trolling the website.



Take care and happy trails.



Wiredawg

 

[klenger]

SWALLS: Good luck on the Ford... I hope it serves you well. I read your post, accepted your opinion, and I press on with my own opinion. You did not offend me or my trucks.

My thoughts exactly. I'm sure the new Ford will serve you well.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Getting the right vehicle for the right reasons is a major purchasing decision for most of us, and discussion of that was the intent of this post.

Okay,... really... ? Let's look at your original post and play fact or fiction.

I decided that the additional initial outlay and expense of purchasing and maintaining a diesel-powered light truck was not the best option for me at this time. .

You already had made the "addtional initial outlay and expense". Therefore you got quaduplely dinged 1) by paying the additonal expense for the diesel and then deciding not to be happy with it, 2) by purchasing the diesel new, 3) by trading the truck in, instead of selling it outright, and 4) by purchasing another new truck. Fact or fiction.

if you put a pencil to it, the improved mileage from a smoker doesn't pay off unless you intend to keep the rig for at least 100K miles; especially with diesel prices running about 15-20 cents above unleaded.

Again you had already paid the initial expense for the diesel. Prehaps, it would have been wiser for you to evaluate your towing, driving, and how long you planned on keeping the truck BEFORE you made the purchase, then your statement would be credilble. I would hazard to say many, if not most, of the folks here PLAN on keeping their CTD for more than 100K or have purchased the truck with towing/work needs specifically in mind. Apparently, you made a foolish decision. I guess all that we can really say is, thanks for sharing that with us.

I do not believe ANY of the Big 3 have made a realiable diesel transmission yet

I pointed out the reliability of the NV5600 transmission. FACT: the CTD does have a reliable transmission option. You didn't specify any particular kind of transmission and then choose to link to some info on a transmission other than the NV5600. Fact or fiction.

... . Bosch can't get the crud out of the CRD, seems to have about a 12-15% failure rate

I asked you to supply a reference for this failure rate. You still haven't done so. Another member suggested it might have come from a POLL. I pointed out the inherent inaccuracy of that poll. Fact or fiction.

plain-Jane interior came straight out of a 1974 International Scout. Dodge had the best-looking truck on the market, and then turned some frustrated interior designer loose on them

I've seen the interior on Scouts and there are substanial differences. How do you know he was frustrated? Fact or fiction. When you bought Silver you had the option of purchasing a slightly used 2G gasser, a "best-looking truck on the market" instead of the F150.

I don't see much improvement on the steering gear either

There was substantial changes from the 2G to the 3G steering both in "gear" and in beefiness of linkage components. Fact or fiction? Commensurately there have been a lot fewer posts about steering problems in regards to wander, death wobble, and trac bars. The complaints now seem to be focused on bad ball joints that seem to be derived not from design of the steering system, but rather from bad ball joints material quality and lack of grease zerks. This apparently is a very bad DC decision based on the dakota and durango ball joint problems.

Please refer to the sticky about "be civil. "

Besides being factual or fictitious, do you think you choice of wording might be offensive or enflamatory to some folks. If so, why did you choose to do so? Your posts indicate that you are aware of how some folks regard their CTDs. Right or wrong, misguided or not, isn't that their choice. Who appointed you to be moral arbitor of their decisions and passions? Knowing how some folks feel, do you think you could have chosen to select less inflamatory rhetoric and maybe selected better facts. On behalf of TDR, I accept you apologies (TIA). we all wish you happiness with your F150 and hope it meets your individual driving needs.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"If so, why did you choose to do so? Your posts indicate that you are aware of how some folks regard their CTDs. Right or wrong, misguided or not, isn't that their choice. "



I, personally reject and totally ABHOR the quaint notion that *I* must constantly artificially sugar coat or otherwise modify the delivery of opinions I post here purely intended as non-personal and factual to the best of my ability.



And that's MY choice!



IF members here are REALLY expected or required to tip-toe around with their *REASONABLY* worded and presented comments, lest they somehow antagonize or unintentionally offend some other thin-skinned member with an attitude, then to Hell with HIM, and this board!



I myself rarely offer comments with ANY intention of offending others, and TRY to make my comments and opinions *on issues*, and as accurate and factual as possible, and *NON PERSONAL* - other posts often are PURELY my personal opinion, and SHOULD be taken that way, rather than as personally abusive or insulting - and ARE by most folks here with the slightest degree of maturity and common sense!



We're SUPPOSED to be adult, reasonable and mature individuals here, NOT cry-babies who get our feelings hurt at the slightest comment WE deliberately choose to take personally. Some of my closest friends are Liberal Democrats - I'm a very Conservative Republican/Libertarian - we get into some rousing discussions, but never resort to insult, personal attacks, nor do we crawl away with hurt feelings over our different political viewpoints. Whyinhell do some here have problems over honestly presented diverse PERSONAL opinions concerning a damn TRUCK?



MY truck is my toy, and transportation, NOT my whole LIFE! :-laf

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Okay, ... for those like Gary who prefer it non-sugar coated, simple, or to the point:



Mr. swalls, if you voted with your feet, what are you still doing here. :-laf :-laf :-laf

























relax

 

[KBennett]

I like your style Trail Dog. Post #46 was excellent.

 

[JBlock]

We don't haul often, but when we put 3/4 of pallet on the 2500 the wife said maybe we should get a 1 ton next time. She sold on her CTD. it ok by me. The diesel think will sort out in Washington state.

 

[jwduke]

Well I guess i've got to add my 2 cents to this... ...



I had 2 Ford trucks, the first one had the engine replaced at 12,000 miles & was going to need it again at 18,000, and it had never towed anything! The 2nd one had a 6. 9 IH diesel in it. All it knew to do was over heat when towing, and drink fuel like a fish. I traded it for a '95 Dodge with a 12V CTD & a 5 speed, I still kick my self for EVER getting rid of it. I was probably the BEST truck I ever owned!



My present truck is a 2004. 5, I was going to go the gasser route like you, as I don't tow a lot. But my Dodge dealer (Vos Motors/Sioux Center,IA One of the BEST!) had a leftover 2004, that was CHEAPER than a new gasser. So the price of a NEW pickup with a diesel engine in it, being the same price, if not cheaper than a NEW '05 gasser pickup. I really love this truck, I'm a little concerned about its fuel milage, but summer diesel isn't available around here yet, so I'm sure it will improve. As for the seat, it isn't as comfortable as the leather seats in my '01 Monte Carlo, but it is a heck of a lot better than the one in my work truck. (An '01 Ford F150!!!)



So please, enjoy your new Ford, and for your % of failure rates, Ford scores 100% with me, and Dodge is at 0% failure rates... ... ... .



And also by the way, isn't the prize getting to the KOA first, getting the camping spot closest to the lake???



So you tell me... ... ... .

 

[macdaddy]

Whew!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1



With my company discount and the bodystyle change over in 04 they where giving away the 03's (F-150's). I bought my 16 year old son a new F-150 XL , V8 (4. 6L) limited slip tow package for 18K OTD "A" plan. Would any of you guys passed that up???. It's great for a 16 year old, not for hauling or towing.



My first ford.

Ex GM guy.

Do the spark plugs really pull out the threads when you change them??



Mac

 

[swalls]

Gary K7GLD, you said it better than I can... God forbid anybody should have the cojones to post anything at all negatory about the Turbodiesel on this forum, or dare to mention that there might be something positive about any brand that doesn't have a Goat on the TailGate.



Mr Traildog, I will answer a few of your points. You ASSUME AN AWFUL LOT from up there in Wyoming... I recall that's somewhere in NORTH Texas, right?



Financial: 1) Old Silver was purchased used 3-1/2 years ago, at a bargain basement price, from a small used pickup sales jockey who wanted out of the auto sales business fast. My initial investment into the diesel was NOT at a $6K premium; in fact, I got the truck within less than $1K of an equivalent 3/4 ton gasser. I decided to sell it 3 months ago due to it's high mileage and constantly rising maintenance expenses associated with the 2nd gens... . ranging from normal wear to such items as cheaply-built steering gearboxes, control arms, lift pumps, etc. Had it listed locally since Dec, and the "solid" offers I got on the vehicle didn't offset the trade-in offers with corresponding sales tax reduction. I came out very well. I took a reasonable amount of depreciation for the use of the truck for 3-1/2 years. . it was not a hasty decision and I wasn't dinged... also I have a clear consicence about not selling another individual buyer a high-mile truck with a 47RE transmission that had to be close to the edge. But thanks for your concern about my financial well-being... I'm sure that was your intent; thanks for sharing THAT with us, but your ASSUMPTION was fiction.



You are correct about the NV5600... I meant automatic transmissions and I should have specified that. My wife also drives our trucks and due to severe back problems cannot handle a stick shift. . I did not like the "feel" of the 48RE, and I have a high esteem for Mr Bill Kondolay's opinion of the 48RE based on his years of experience and reputation. Bill helped me with some problems I had on the 47RE on old Silver. . I respect his knowledge and ability based on his track record... I just don't want to spend $4K to upgrade to a bulletproof automatic transmission; bulletproof SHOULD come standard equipment no matter where the shifter is located. That is a FACT... somewhat idealistic, but a fact, nonetheless.



The injector failure rate: Reference to Rbattle's poll, and 2 similar polls on the Chevrolet DieselPage forum. You have to register on the DieselPage to access the two polls. The results are 15% on the LL7 engine and 12% on the LLY, to save you the trouble. We have already discussed whether or not these polls are "scientific", and whether or not they PROVE the actual failure rate. . Of course is doesn't. All I can say it go review the 1st and 2nd gen engine threads on this TDR forum and see how many people are complaining about low-mileage catastrophic injector failures; then compare it to the 3rd gens. Where there's smoke, there's fire, Mr TrailDog. There lots of smoke on all 3 brand forums about the Bosch CRD injectors. . You Prove to Me that the number of light truck diesel engines equipped with the Bosch CRD which have NOT had at least a single injector failure is NOT 12-15%, and let me know *your* resources.



As regards the interior and seating of the 05 SLT & Laramies; to each his own. *My* first impression of both was that they do in fact "resemble" the cheap seats used in the old International Scouts, right down to the color pattern and thin cushions. . of which my father owned one for many years; may it RUST in Peace. If you want to be blunt, I thought the interior designer responsibile for this sorry piece of work could have been in fact "cost-challenged", not merely frustrated.



Steering: test-driving 4 of the 05 Turbodiesels gave me the impression of sloppy and cumbersome steering versus both the Ford & GMC diesel trucks. Not what I would expect from a $40K plus rig. as you pointed out, Dodge already has some black eyes from it's steering. and every one of them had the 67-70 MPH range drivetrain vibration.



I would not have bought an 04 or 05 Dodge diesel even if I had found an outstanding deal like jwduke's. . due to the 4 honest concerns I have previously posted; injectors, automatic transmission, the 70 MPH drivetrain vibration, and the cheapo seats.



BTW, You're right, jwduke, the early bird gets the worm... unless the late bird makes a reservation in advance.



as for your last point, Mr TrailDog, if you REALLY want something to take offense at, why don't you consider going over to the Ford or Chevy Forums and post something truthful and honest about their rigs... you ALSO will meet some word-twisting thin-skinned blinders-wearing "ford-uber-alles" types over there... who will ALSO be eager to try to dissect every word of your posts and try to "twist" everything you say into something negative or false, just for you stating your honest opinion, on what should be at best an interesting & lively topic of conversation... .

Oh, that just exactly what several of you are doing right here on the TDR! If the shoe fits, wear it.



Because so many of the TDR members are Blowing a Gasket over this thread, this is my last word on the subject. I have said all I really have to say about the subject with the 4 shortcomings of the current Dodge diesel. I am not truly offended even by TrailDog's misconceptions and assumptions, nor even by the guy who figured I was drunk & P. O. 'd over TV, nor by any of the rest. I was not TRYING to offend anybody... any more of you like that are wasting your time posting trying to bait me on the subject, because I won't respond to any further posts on this thread.

GARY, you're absolutely right about thin-skinned people, incredible rudeness, and intolerance, but let's just drop it. !Illigetimi non-carborundum :-laf

 

[KBennett]

Hmmm..... I wonder how swalls is doing with the F150.



My truck just turned 43K miles and no injector problems and the seats are working fine

 

[RankRam]

Stir... ... ... Stir... ... ... :-laf

 

[jwilliams3]

Gas sucks.

 

[DIESELMAN]

:-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[Nate]

The only reason I have kept my truck is because I like it and it's worth paying . 40 more a gallon for diesel... cause I hate gas.

 

[jnelson]

Well Swalls you have definitely told me



1. You cant afford a diesel truck.

2. You cant afford another . 10 per gallon for diesel.



End of story.

 

[Edgemann55]

Diesel is cheaper then regular unleaded here now so I guess I will have my truck pay for itself in 80,000 miles instead of 100,000. Nice thing is my Cummins will be hummin along way past the miles any gasser will give you,but of course I am hoping the Dodge wraped around it will last as long.

By the way did you check out Chevrons Quarter earnings-Highest in the history of the companys earnings ever-Price gouging? Naww!! I guess those boys are celebrating tonight.