AS69RC swap

[David Christensen]

hello ! I was wondering if it is possible to swap an Aisin transmission into a 3rd gen Ram 3500 with the 5.9. Any ideas ?

 

[cerberusiam]

No controller available for the transmission. Without the right controller and engine interface they will not function correctly. 68RFE or Ally swap is the only ones currently doable with any success rate, expensive.

 

[David Christensen]

No controller available for the transmission. Without the right controller and engine interface they will not function correctly. 68RFE or Ally swap is the only ones currently doable with any success rate, expensive.

Thanks for the info ! So the best way to get the advantages of an Aisin would be to transplant a salvaged 6.7 & Aisin with all their associated “stuff”. Would that kind of a swap be better accomplished in a previously manual transmission equipped truck ? Wouldn’t the steering column also need to be replaced ? Sorry, but I really like the Aisin but HATE the emissions stuff !

 

[cerberusiam]

Expensive also as you really need the whole truck to get all the parts. Then you will have to deal with the potential differences in data buses and cluster reading correctly plus all the peripherals speaking the same language. Probably better of sourcing the truck you want then deleting emissions stuff.

 

[David Christensen]

Expensive also as you really need the whole truck to get all the parts. Then you will have to deal with the potential differences in data buses and cluster reading correctly plus all the peripherals speaking the same language. Probably better of sourcing the truck you want then deleting emissions stuff.

Yeah, sure starting to look that way. I have mandatory yearly emission tests so deleting might be a problem. Could move out of the county though ! Lol. Some of the tuners for newer trucks claim reduced usage of the DEF & not doing EGR. Thank you for your insight ! I was trying to not pay attention to my “little voice”. Lol.

 

[JR]

This was one of the issues I had with keeping my gen 2 vs upgrading to a newer truck, the 4 speed autos are a horrible match for towing. I have absolutely no experience with this guy but he really seems like he knows his stuff. At one point I was really considering swapping a 68 into my 98 but ended up buying a newer truck solely for the extra room needed for my teenage boys .

http://www.transmissiontuner.com/68RFE-Swap.html

 

[cerberusiam]

Since most of the emissions testing is done on the platform it becomes a grey area what is required. Transplanting a newer engine into an older platform makes it a bit easier. On a 3rd gen the onll real testing that cna be done is check the OBD interface to see if certain PIDS are active, a snap test for smoke, and visual on emissions for that year. Now what would happen if they plugged into an 05 with say a 2010 6.7 ECM and tune is a big question. Probably put their monitor into TILT mode and since they cannot think outside the box you get a fail.

A tuner that cannot tune with emissions in place is not worth the investment, and, th emissions devices and tuning are part of what we have to deal with. As you said, it is either move or toe the line.

 

[David Christensen]

Since most of the emissions testing is done on the platform it becomes a grey area what is required. Transplanting a newer engine into an older platform makes it a bit easier. On a 3rd gen the onll real testing that cna be done is check the OBD interface to see if certain PIDS are active, a snap test for smoke, and visual on emissions for that year. Now what would happen if they plugged into an 05 with say a 2010 6.7 ECM and tune is a big question. Probably put their monitor into TILT mode and since they cannot think outside the box you get a fail.

A tuner that cannot tune with emissions in place is not worth the investment, and, th emissions devices and tuning are part of what we have to deal with. As you said, it is either move or toe the line.

I talked with TS performance & they say that their tuner chops DEF consumption in half & still gets better fuel mileage with ALL of the emission equipment in place. I’ve found a few trucks under $50,000 that have what I’m looking for. That would seem the prudent route & I would still have the delete option if I move.
Az emissions people are not always on top of things. When I brought my diesel Liberty in, they were totally confused & just waved me through even though they had tested it the year before. Weird ! Lol.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Since the 2013-up emissions system is by now proven, non-intrusive, effective, and gives good power and mpg, I would recommend avoiding all the headaches of a conversion. If your 13-up purchase works for you, just drive it. If not, as above, there are "tunes" available at your risk, becoming your own warranty station and hoping any smog enforcers are OK with it.

 

[David Christensen]

Since the 2013-up emissions system is by now proven, non-intrusive, effective, and gives good power and mpg, I would recommend avoiding all the headaches of a conversion. If your 13-up purchase works for you, just drive it. If not, as above, there are "tunes" available at your risk, becoming your own warranty station and hoping any smog enforcers are OK with it.

Good advice, that’s the route I’m going to follow. The newer trucks are AMAZING & it’ll probably be the last truck I buy. Gonna want to put some serious miles down, my ‘02 has 334,000 plus & I haven’t done any serious trips the last few years, but the truck is falling apart around the engine. Lol. My first diesel & I’m learning more & more as the miles go by.

 

[cerberusiam]

The SCR trucks definitely have an upside in the emissions department but not without some detriments. The DEF systems specifically seem to sourced from the cheapest bidder possible and are the single biggest problem with them. Injector, pump, modules all seem to be the same across the Cummins line. If it was a simple replacement and off you go that would not be so bad but those days are gone. It has to go to a dealer, they have to find the problem, then order the parts, schedule the work, etc. Not unusual to see 3-4 weeks down time if it is a complex problem. Need towing and vehicle replacement insurance along with a warranty or one gets to pay the tab for everything in addition to the truck payment. Fixed the mechanical issues but it did not fix the reliability question.

 

[David Christensen]

The SCR trucks definitely have an upside in the emissions department but not without some detriments. The DEF systems specifically seem to sourced from the cheapest bidder possible and are the single biggest problem with them. Injector, pump, modules all seem to be the same across the Cummins line. If it was a simple replacement and off you go that would not be so bad but those days are gone. It has to go to a dealer, they have to find the problem, then order the parts, schedule the work, etc. Not unusual to see 3-4 weeks down time if it is a complex problem. Need towing and vehicle replacement insurance along with a warranty or one gets to pay the tab for everything in addition to the truck payment. Fixed the mechanical issues but it did not fix the reliability question.

My insurance agent had his truck down for about 6 months because the turbo(exhaust brake I think) kept stalling the truck at stoplights. From what I understand, the dealer knew what the problem was but had to get the OK from Corporate to proceed with the repair. Stuff like that is what holds me back from purchasing a newer truck but it couldn’t be THAT common or the lawsuits would be making national headlines I would think !

 

[cerberusiam]

No basis to sue and no real recourse other than go thru the lemon laws if they exist in your state. There is really no criminal liability attached to taking too long to fix a vehicle, hard to prove anything and costs would be way more than ever recouped. The only time you get any push behind these things is when lives are endangered like tires that blow out, air bags that go off unexpectedly, gas tank tanks that explode on rear collisions, etc. A lot of people have zero issues, some have nothing but issues and getting satisfaction is a drawn out process.

The SCR and DPF systems are expensive to fix and once the warranty ends it is your dime. Pay on these $65k trucks for 6 years and if your are lucky you get 3 years of warranty and when the warranty runs out it is a good bet something will break as that is how they are built. Other choice is pay less than half of new and get the problems out of the truck. Crappy choice but that is the corner we are pushed into.

 

[JR]

If I lived in an area that required annual emissions I'd not own a modern diesel. I bought my 14 knowing eventually I'd be headed down the delete road . It's just not practical to own these trucks outside of the warranty period if you plan to keep it stock. A simple def injector failure, a part that you can buy for under $200 turns into a $700-800 trip to the dealership. And thats getting off cheap. No way around it as any new emissions part installed has to be flashed to the truck and the only game in town I'm aware of is witech. Deleting has it's its own issues if not done correctly but it's the lesser of two evils when it comes to your wallet.

 

[Motorhead]

So I have considered the swap to the 68RFE but in reading, it seems that the 68RFE possibly can't be built up to handle much over 350-400 hp? Is this true? I currently have the late G-56. Getting tired of shifting around town and would like the .82 towing OD. Currently, my 6th gear is .74 with the later G-56.
Not being an automatic truck from new, would I have any ECM issues talking to a stand alone controller?

 

[cerberusiam]

I would call Revmax and spend a lot of time grilling them about how their transmission would work with a stand alone controller. Their top rated transmission is 800 HP so I think you could probably get one to hold 350-400 HP. Tran tuning and well built 68RFE is a monster. Dodge spent ZERO time and as cheap of parts as they could to get to warranty period and that was all they wanted. There seems to be a lot of room for improvement if you are not competition racing or thrashing them hard.

The big question will be trans tuning with a stand alone or minimal input controller. Not gonna be cheap for sure but a couple peopel I have chatted with are running their units with custom trans tuning and a lot more HP thna 400. They seem happy so far and still recommend them.

 

[Motorhead]

Thanks for the lead on Revmax.

 

[promisedland]

Thanks for the lead on Revmax.

If you move ahead with a swap, I'm your fan! Please keep us posted!