At the dealer again

[GHedger]

My '08 Sterling Bullet is once again at the dealer for repairs. I took it in because the oil dipstick was showing about one inch over full(first time for this in 64k). It also has been showing a black haze out the tailpipe. The dealer told me today they have a new paticulate filter on order. They also told me there is no fuel in the oil so that rules out an injector concern. I'm just wondering if there diagnosis sounds right. I have already had a new turbo,egr,and all updates done so i guess a new dpf is in order. Sounds to me that in nine months when this truck goes out of warranty its gonna become an expensive truck to maintain. GO EPA!!!!

 

[Cummins12V98]

How do they know there is no fuel in the oil? I would send a sample to Blackstock and see for your self.

Good luck.

 

[rscurtis]

If you think this is going to be expensive, try a Ford.

 

[GHedger]

From following the posts over the years regarding the oil being overfull, my understanding is that egr/dpf is the main cause of the oil to dilute with fuel. So I cant believe there is no fuel in the oil. It may not be an injector but certainly is caused by the emmission components. I guess a phone call to the sevice manager will be on my to do list Monday morning. I have plans of an egr/dpf delete but I'm not sure of what programmer to use. My thoughts have been either Smarty jr or EFI live. I am not looking for added power just a dependable truck that doesn't spend weeks on end at the dealer. Otherwise the truck has been great and does everthing I ask of it. As far as knowing about a Ford being expensive, I have a good friend who is a ford tech and I think the 6. 0 Powerstrokes are putting at least one of his kids through college.

 

[MullenaxM]

Just Installing a DPF is not curing the problem. If your oil level is over full there is another issue causing the problem. The DPF is a Filter That collects The soot that the engine produces during the combustion cycle. Think of The DPF in plumbing terms, Everything flows downhill. The DPF is at the bottom of the hill. If the dealer has determined that the DPF is stopped-up and needs replacing then there is a underlining reason that the DPF is stopped up. When the Emission/Exhaust system is operating as designed The DPF should be a self cleaning filter. If the soot-load is to heavy for the DPF to regenerate (self Cleaning) then there is a problem upstream causing to much Soot (particulates).



Mike

 

[Bill Stockard]

As far as knowing about a Ford being expensive, I have a good friend who is a ford tech and I think the 6. 0 Powerstrokes are putting at least one of his kids through college.

:-laf:-laf:-laf



A 6. 0L Powerstroke benefit that Ford didn't use in their advertising...



Bill

 

[GHedger]

Mike, I have to agree with you in regards to an underlying problem. Less than two years a go the truck was running bad and blowing black smoke. I took the truck to the dealer and the DPF was full. At that time I wasnt as worried because it was winter and the truck sees very long idle times. Anyhow the dealer was able to purge the DPF and install a computer update. Within 20k the DPF is now being replaced, yea something else is going on. I have read many posts regarding oil level being overfull and I know something isn't right with mine but is the first time its happened. I've done oil samples since new and every time the results were fine. I'm pretty sure the hard part will be getting the dealer to believe there is more of a problem. One thing eveyone must remember it's a Sterling, and Detroit Diesel is footing the bill on this. What I'm saying is I have a much easier time dealing with my 4500 when it comes to warranty. Calling the dealer now, and I will update as it happens. Thanks!

 

[GHedger]

Well ,I picked my truck up from the dealer with a new DPF, sensors and tubes. I talked with the tech and he said the internals of the DPF was coming apart and the soot on the the body of my truck was the reason for replacing it. He did cylinder cut out, idle balance tests and rail pressure leak down tests. He stated that none of those tests pointed to cylinder misfire, loss of compression or dribbling injector tip. The tech also stated that he did not "smell" fuel in the oil and the oil level was on the high side of normal. he also said that only 10% of engine run time is under a load. I have a very hard time believing the 10% load thing, other than in the winter the truck spends most of the time pulling a trailer. Now that I have the truck back serviced it and I drained 13. 5 quarts of oil. I sent the oil to the lab and I am waiting for the results.

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,

Assuming this a Dodge dealer working on your Sterling the shop has the ability to download the engine hours and power levels recorded in your ecm. If the readout shows only 10% load and long idle periods that would probably explain at least some of the problems you are experiencing.

My truck has the same engine and drive train yours does and I have never experienced any of the problems you are seeing. Others using Ram C&C trucks have reported the same experience as I have had. Actually, I've never heard of a C&C with the kind of problems you reported until yours. I wonder if the sooting issues are the result of using it most of the time for transportation and long idle times.

What is the truck actually used for?

 

[GHedger]

Harvey, the truck is still being serviced at Freightliner aka Sterling dealer, which is a Cummins dealer, that is my only option for warranty. In the winter is when the truck see's idle time, I may drive from snowplow account to snowplow account but most of the time I run my business from the truck and I may stay in one spot for hours at a time. I understand that is not helping my issue at all but its part of my business. The rest of the year the truck is used to pull my tag trailer with equipment or supplies. The truck sees a combination of around town driving as well as highway. Long distance driving for this truck maybe 100 miles one way. During the non winter months the truck see's normal idle time's that most other's would see. My 08 4500 is used to plow snow and spread salt in the winter with alot of around town driving and low speed manuevers but doesn't get the idle time, otherwise non winter months it is used the same as my Sterling. I have had no problems with it in it's 20k mile life.

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,

This is odd. My understanding has long been that no dealer other than a Dodge dealer has or is willing to invest the sizable cost to have the Dodge-compatible computer hardware and unique Dodge-Cummins software. Our engines are made by Cummins regardless of end application but our Dodge software is reportedly different and unique. I wonder how the FL dealer is deciding to replace turbos, egrs, and dpfs. Have you had check engine lights and codes set?

A few early ISB6. 7 pickup engines were experiencing some fuel contamination in the crankcase and were showing overfull on the dipsticks but my understanding is that the cause was corrected several years ago with several reflash software changes. I have not heard of that condition in some time and never on a cab and chassis.

I have read that it is easy to create a false reading by quickly draining the engine oil and refilling without allowing adequate time for the old oil to drain completely. I don't know who or under what condition your engine oil was changed but would first seek to eliminate the incomplete drain issue before deciding an injector or other component was causing crankcase oil dilution. A bad injector on a 67k engine would be out of the ordinary.

How did your FL dealer perform reflashes? I didn't know they could. Mike Mullenax installed a reflash in my '08 C&C several years ago, '08 I think. As far as I know that was the only reflash issued. The reflash included lots of minor features and allowing long idle times was one of them IIRC. I have always let my idle whenever it was convenient but have never needed to allow it to idle for periods of an hour or more like I did my earlier 5. 9s. I can understand your need to let it idle for hours after heavy snows when you are out plowing. The C&C engine should tolerate that without problem according to what a Cummins engineer told me several years ago.

A free dpf won't hurt anything but as Mike stated above, the dpf is a symptom not a cause. If the dealer has already determined with satisfaction that you don't have fuel dilution my conclusion would be you don't have a problem. I would quit going to a dealer - they'll replace parts as long as FL will pay but replacing parts may not always be in your best interest.

I'd make sure future oil drains allow plenty of time to get a full drain, take a free dpf if FL wants to buy you one, then take that truck out and drive it under load at highway speeds as often as you can and try to minimize idle time.

 

[jhenderson]

It's a Sterling not a dodge.

 

[mwilson]

It's a Sterling not a dodge.

I think that he is asking a valid question, it also occurred to me earlier as well.



Dodge Cummins software can not be read without the Dodge Diagnostic System. I also wonder how the Sterling Dealer is doing this.



We are a Freightliner/Western Star/Sterling Dealer and we have no software to do it. We have taken over responsibility for the Bullet recently and we were not required to purchase additional equipment. If he took his 2008 Dodge to the local Cummins dealer they would not be able to interface with it.



So one of two things is going on here. .



(1) The dealer that he is using in Illinois made the investment previously to purchase the Dodge software when the Bullets first came out.



(2) The Bullet is using normal Cummins software instead of the Dodge software and can be read by software that any "B" series dealer has at their shop.



I am curious how this is being done. I don't know if my District Service Manager would know the answer to this, I will drop him an e-mail.



Mike.

 

[GHedger]

I am going to try and answer all the questions and conserns in the previous posts the best i can.

1) when I bought the truck the FL dealership wasn't able to do engine warranty at the time because they didnt have the software . I had a cel that was something turbo related, at that time I tried to go to a local cummins dealer and I was told they could work on it but couldn't warranty it because detroit diesel assumed all warranty. The FL dealer later was and still is able to work on my truck.

2) I have had cel's and at those times is when the FL dealer replaced parts.

3) I am the only one to do oil changes and every oil change has had an oil sample. There is a chance that I overfilled by 2 quarts, because I never had an overfill issue until now. But in the course of the the last sevice the oil was never overfull until recently.

4) The FL dealer has done reflashes before, I don't remember what for. The first time I was having the soot issue and after the turbo was replaced I did take the truck to a Dodge dealer because i didn't have time to drive to FL. The Dodge dealer was able to purge the DPF and did a reflash for me in regards to the long idle times the truck see's. I think they charged me 1. 5 hours for labor.

5) the fuel dilultion question will be answered as soon as I get my oil results.

6) I am using Truck City in Gary, Indiana. Up until about a year ago Mike Adamczewski was the service Mgr there. I am mentioning his name because before he was at truck city he was a district mgr with FL or Cummins (I can't remember which and I may be wrong with both). I am not here to "slam" Truck City, but they don't have a very good reputation. I use them because they are the closest to me, otherwise I'm driving up to 2 hours away.

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,

Thanks. It's helpful to provide all the background information you can when dealing with an unclear issue like this.

I don't doubt your FL dealer "can work on your truck" but I'm still uncertain whether they actually have the Dodge software that allows them to read out the ECM history or perform reflashes. A trained and experienced truck shop with real mechanics can figure out many problems by experience without software diagnosis. But, perhaps they made the investment in software. Did they initially stock and sell a large number of Sterlings? I didn't think the Sterlings were offered long enough for any dealer to sell a lot of them.

Dodge dealer "purged your dpf?" I don't think the dpf used on our C&C trucks can be purged. They could have initiated a regeneration and took it out and drove it at highway speed for 40 minutes or so to complete the regeneration cycle.

I think you've been confused by misinformation or, to be more polite to the service writers you've been speaking with, confused by careless language or improper procedure labels used by service writers.

I believe you are on the right track to have an oil sample done. I think it will show no significant fuel contamination.

In my opinion your truck is probably operating normally.

 

[BIGNASTY]

QUOTE



This is odd. My understanding has long been that no dealer other than a Dodge dealer has or is willing to invest the sizable cost to have the Dodge-compatible computer hardware and unique Dodge-Cummins software. Our engines are made by Cummins regardless of end application but our Dodge software is reportedly different and unique





Im not going to argue and start a war but YES CUMMINS CAN AND HAS read and looked at mine and my sons DODGE truck ECM at Cal Pac Cummins. Do they want to PROBLEBLY NOT i'm sure that they have better things to do than look at every DODGE TRUCK with a cummins motor. I would think that Cummins is not going to stake their reputation on our Cummins equipped truck and not have a way to disprove what DODGE said is wrong. JMO



BIG

 

[GHedger]

I recieved the oil analysis Saturday and all is well, soot level is @ 13. 3, water<0. 3%, fuel 0. 0% and antifreeze <. 01%. This oil sample was drawn with 7614 miles/441 hours. All test appear normal and I could extend the oil by 500 miles or 25 hours. I'm still not sure of what happened with the oil level being overfull, I'm starting to think it was an error on my part(hard to believe). I think i may spend the money and take the truck to a dodge dealer and have the truck looked over and to verify any of the scanning, ecm reflash issues, software etc. that were discussed here. Thanks to all who replied, although I don't post or reply to many threads I use the TDR website as a valuable resource guide. Keep up the great work.

 

[mwilson]

Gary,

Thank you for your answers regarding the Sterling dealer as well. We are trying to be ready when one rolls in the door here.



I went to my schooled up Cummins tech and he thinks that we can plug into the forward plug and observe the ECM, sensors, etc. but will not be able to communicate with it. I am going to bring the '06 down soon and we will plug into it using the Cummins software to see exactly what can and can't be done. I will post our results once we try it.



Mike.

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,

Thanks for the feedback. It helps close the loop on a reported problem and we all learn from them.

Sag2 once posted that the way to determine if a dealership has a trained Cummins tech is to inquire if their techs are Level IV trained and certified diesel techs. I think they are rare. There are also excellent self-taught older and experienced real diesel mechanics like TDR member Mike Mullenax.