Atf+4

[Soot4Life]

I haven't paid attention to the ATF threads since my last trans. service and was surprised to find ATF+4 @ NAPA and other parts stores at generic ATF prices. The last time I changed it the stuff was rare and pricey. It's apparently not all synthetic anymore... . YES? NO?

 

[WCPoe]

I'm reasonably sure that all the ATF-4 rated stuff is synthetic. That being said, I have found the Mopar brand ATF-4 at Wally world as well a generic ATF-4 at reasonable prices.

 

[HBarlow]

I think the generic stuff at Wal-Mart packaged in the Wal-Mart brand quart jug is not synthetic. You can buy it either synthetic or dinosaur remains at various auto parts stores. I believe the factory fill and the recommended fluid is synthetic.

 

[MLee]

Can the Mopar ATF+4 be used in the transrere case in the 95's, CTD?

 

[WCPoe]

I guess I was wrong about all ATF-4 being synthetic in my earlier post. The ATF-4 stuff is just a formulation spec. As near as I could determine it does start with a higher quality base though. I searched and found a technical abstract on the ATF-4 but it's way over my head.



http://u225.torque.net/cars/tech/trans/982674.pdf



However, here are the conclusions from the article which do make some sense.

CONCLUSIONS

This paper describes the development of an ATF that is

considered fill-for-life. The bench and field test data

presented above supports the following conclusions:

1. The Group III XHVI base stock used in ATF B

provides superior low temperature performance

when compared to other ATFs in the same category.

2. ATF B has excellent shear stability and viscosity

retention as defined by the 20 hour KRL test and

shown in the vehicle data.

3. The oxidation stability of ATF B has shown significant

long term improvement over other fluids as shown in

the ABOT test and vehicle data.

4. The anti-wear properties of ATF B have been

improved measurably over ATF A as defined by the

Modified ASTM D2882 and D5182 tests and shown

in the vehicle data.

5. The frictional properties of ATF B closely match

those of ATF A and are substantiated by various

bench and vehicle tests.



Maybe some of the more knowledgeable transmission guys can step up here.

 

[amsoilman]

I guess I was wrong about all ATF-4 being synthetic in my earlier post. The ATF-4 stuff is just a formulation spec. As near as I could determine it does start with a higher quality base though. I searched and found a technical abstract on the ATF-4 but it's way over my head.



http://u225.torque.net/cars/tech/trans/982674.pdf



However, here are the conclusions from the article which do make some sense.

CONCLUSIONS

This paper describes the development of an ATF that is

considered fill-for-life. The bench and field test data

presented above supports the following conclusions:

1. The Group III XHVI base stock used in ATF B

provides superior low temperature performance

when compared to other ATFs in the same category.

2. ATF B has excellent shear stability and viscosity

retention as defined by the 20 hour KRL test and

shown in the vehicle data.

3. The oxidation stability of ATF B has shown significant

long term improvement over other fluids as shown in

the ABOT test and vehicle data.

4. The anti-wear properties of ATF B have been

improved measurably over ATF A as defined by the

Modified ASTM D2882 and D5182 tests and shown

in the vehicle data.

5. The frictional properties of ATF B closely match

those of ATF A and are substantiated by various

bench and vehicle tests.



Maybe some of the more knowledgeable transmission guys can step up here.

Yes, the ATF+4 is a Chrysler specific spec. That being said, the Mopar ATF+4 sold by the Dodge dealerships, as well as other places uses a Group III XHVI (Xtra High Viscosity Index) base stock, and is for all practical purposes called a "Synthetic" ATF. The term "Synthetic oil" is now considered a Marketing term, due to a ruling made in April 1999 by the (NAD) National Advertising Division of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. This ruling was brought about from a dispute between Castrol's "Syntec" and Mobil 1.



The Group IV and Group V Base Stocks were once considered the only "SYNTHETIC" lubes, and although the engineering of Group IV and Group V Base stocks varies on the particular stock, these base stocks are generally made through a reaction process. The reaction process significantly improves the consistency of the stock and its molecular uniformity.



Mineral Stocks on the other hand, are obtained through a process of distillation . Distillation slightly limits the molecular diversity that may exist within the stock, but does not completely eliminate nonessential molecular structures. This is important because unnecessary molecular structures produce variations in the stocks performance. A Group IV or Group V base Stock is a chemical composition in which the molecular construction is identical throughout and contains significantly less undesirable materials.



Molecular uniformity also effects the properties and the performance of lubricants manufactured with Group IV or Group V base Stocks and can be formulated for very predictable results.



wayne

 

[steved]

Can the Mopar ATF+4 be used in the transrere case in the 95's, CTD?

From the 2004 FSM:

DESCRIPTION - TRANSFER CASE

Recommended lubricant for the NV241 GENII, NV271, NV243, NV244 GENII, and NV273 transfer cases is Mopart ATF +4, Automatic Transmission Fluid.


From the 2001 FSM:

DESCRIPTION - TRANSFER CASE FLUID

Recommended lubricant for the NV231 and NV241 transfer case is Mopart ATF +4, (MS 9602) Automatic Transmission Fluid.



The 95 should have either an NP241 or NV241HD, which are a similar design tcase...

 

[MLee]

Thanks steved, I'm going to change to it.

 

[WilsonF]

This is the way I understand it. For years Chrysler held the license for the ATF+4 then released it to other manufacturers, the reason the price came down, but they still had to use the same formula. Anything that calls for the +3 can use the +4 but if it calls for the +4 you can not use the +3.

Floyd