Atten: Union Steel Workers who Vote Dem.

[BCFAST]

To those of you who are good workers and do your jobs well and get paid for it... . let me appologize now, before I offer my opinion. I think unions suck. They are the root of most of what is wrong in America. Sort of like racial quotas, they are wrong: you either do your job well, or youre fired! No covering up, no solidarity... be a productive worker or get the he!! out. Union labor has driven the cost of an American-made product so high, that the Chinese, Mexican, etc. . products can be shipped halfway around the world and still be cheaper... . and usually better! Unions cover up for the slackers that shouldnt have the job they do, and pit the workers AGAINST the management, rather than working together. I believe that unions were once necessary, due to unscrupiulous mine operators, but they have LONG outgrown their usefullness. Begin flaming. LOL

 

[Steve M]

Jee wiz BC, you have all the answers! Where I work, you either do your job well or you're fired. I've seen it happen many times in my 19 years with the same union company. Just in case you haven't gotten to that part yet in business math, the price of a product is determined by what people will pay for it. It has almost nothing to do with cost of manufacturing. If there's not enough profit in a product, it ceases to exist. Just look around at what products and retail chains are no longer in existance. Cheap labor means more profit, not a lower price. Do you really think big business is farming out labor to foreign countries so they can lower prices out of the goodness of their hearts? That would be very naive. It's for higher profits. At the very highest prices consumers are willing to pay. Don't be taken in by far right propaganda. It's as poisonous as far left propaganda.

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98 2500 CC SB 4X2 12v 5spd 4. 10, -silencer, AFC+20, Edelbrock IAS, VDO gauges, Reese 15k Classic
97 Dodge Stratus 150HP
92 Harley Fatboy, Dynojet fuel management, Supertrapp 2-1
00 Jayco 25' 5th wheel, single slide

 

[Archive]

Steve... maybe bush did start NAFTA... I don't really know who started the thing, but believe it to be wrong, as far as from a union standpoint. Read above, I said it sounded like a whopper, but did not say I knew it to be false. (even if he did... ). Fact remains, Clinton signed it, and could have vetoed it. Did he? How many jobs will be lost because of that? Maybe 11,501?

BCfast... No flaming from me. I disagree with quotas too. See it all the time, and wish I did not.
That is why I asked for info on the ludlow(?) incident. I am sure whenever/whatever happened in the past, it was an important issue. I like to read about this stuff. I have relatives that started several unions in Montana, when it was not very popular to do so. Early 1900s. And I am proud of that. I am not very proud of some of the union activities nowadays!

 

[radixr]

I used to work at a manufacturing company that was organized by the machinists. I was a salaried N/C programmer. At one point I was asked to take over for a second shift shop foreman who quit until management could find a replacement. I didn't want to do it because the union officers from president down to shop steward were all nit-picking, antagonistic hard asses. But most of the members were reasonable, hard-working stiffs that I got along with. So, with some reluctance, I agreed to do it.

I was determined to cooperate with the union and abide by the work rules, even though I thought a lot of them were nothing short of ridiculous.

For a while, things went smoothly. I even chatted amiably with the most hardcore members. One night, an operator with a reputation for causing trouble over work rules complained that he could not properly check a critical dimension on the parts he was machining. It was a legitimate complaint. So I took it upon myself to devise a way for him to check it at his work station without having to take a 1/2 hour delay to take the part to the inspection department.

He promptly filed a grievance against me for doing the work of the inspection department! To this day, I think he set me up.

I know most union members aren't like that but this is the kind of crap that turned me against the union philosophy.

 

[Champane Flight]

Rob,let me start by telling you I have been wronged by the company and management. I can tell you that it hurt worse to be nailed by my own so called brothers. And yes I do agree with many of the points you made. Like I have said before and will say again"A union is only as strong as its members". I have seen selfish stewards take grevances of there own petty self serving all the way to the brink and beyond. And when legitimant matters come up for other members of the work force,they ignore it!These are some of the reasons Unions get a bad rap. It is a real good reason that if you belong to a union GET INVOLVED. To many times I have seen people in the union bad mouthing there officers or a decision,not even knowing their names.

As far as your comments BC I cannot believe what your saying. Do you like paid vacation,healthcare,overtime pay,or retirement? These are all things that unions fought for. You take them for granted now. To blame our jobs being taken by foreign labor because of unions is stupid. Would you work for . 25 and hour? Thats what some workers are making in the sweat shops of Nike in the east. Would you like to compete with that?

I think that the unions will die in the future if they do not change. The days of the strike and demands are gone. I also believe that a good union should and will have to work with managment to form a alliance to raise productivity,cut expense,and yes even fire workers who are not pulling there weight. The days of the strike are outdated and the days of a "lock in" will have to be considered.

I am sorry Rob for the position you were put in. However I would not have crossed!A good book on the subject of Ludlow is "Out of the depths". But I cannot remember the author.

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...

 

[Archive]

CP... sorry to hear of your plight... I will look for the book at the library next time I'm down there with my daughter.

A system of checks and balances is good for everyone. If either one resorts to strongarm tactics, hang it up.

I actually went into management to try and change things for the employees... LOL. Its a whole different perspective, and it is very hard to effect a change. Some things I would still like to change... others, I would not.

 

[Sled Puller]

There is an answer to striking.
Unbeatable quality production.
The Unions are capable of putting out the best trained workers.
Any good company realizes this. They just have too thin out the trouble makers.
Make the companys WANT to have Union workers, then you'll have something!

 

[Champane Flight]

Exactly Gene,If Management and the union could work together instead of looking to dump on each other more companys would want them. The unions are already trying to do this in many companys by offering safety training,chemical hazard,and so on. But most companys see this as training a workforce to be disobedient(by refusing to work in unsafe conditions). However some companys are useing the unions specificly for their training and saveing big bucks. With some of the Govt. regs out there I would think it would be very cost effective and a positive liabilty for companys to utilize unions. Any CEOs listening?

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...

 

[dabubba]

Most of you who bash clinton thinking he was/is pro union forget arkansas is a RIGHT TO WORK STATE-he has had a better repor with the union than bush sr. did but I remembered a regan line- are you better off today than you were under the other party control- trouth fully I can say yes- under the previous republican administration I was one of the many of the unemployed construction workers- Today I'm lucky working and saving for the next republican recession-- hey boys it's starting- As far as the steel workers they can do what our union local did- a Work preservation clause in there contract- The contractors must pay their employees the same rate of pay as our local members are paid when the materials are fabricated out of our area- if not the union fines the contractor the difference- and as a union member I am not bound to install the materials untill the contractor shows proof- yes unions do work when you are part of the solution and are envolved- In california we have already seen the republican view of work place safety- Gov. Pete Wilson (a republican)cut back our OHSA so bad that there was no enforcement. I'm not passing judgement on the new republican president- but look at history-

 

[Jeff H]

LTV steel just filed for bank ruptsy. We just lost 1500 jobs up on the iron range and taconite plat. Why you ask. Thank the china for dumping cheap metal.

 

[Sled Puller]

dabubba,
I like how you say "Republican recession"
If that is true, why, the last 8 years must be George Bush's doing, eh?

 

[Chad Sheets]

I grew up with food on the table from a Union job. I got to live a better than average life growing up thanks to Union wages. Got medical treatment for all those teenage scrapes from union enforced medical care. My Mom got to stay home in a nice house and raise me thanks to Dads good Union wages.

The whole idea behind unions being started was mainly because of wages, the safety thing was thrown in as an extra benefit. There were all sorts of "minorities" entering the work force at the turn of the century. They would work for much less than our great grandfathers would, resulting in our great grandparents loosing jobs... not because they were lazy, but because someone would do it cheaper. "Unions" organized and strong armed the big companies and said you will pay everyone x amount of pay regardless of race, talents etc.

Today we are facing the same problems all over again. Mexicans are doing what anyone else will, but for $20 a day. My Mom works her rear off at a wire sewing factory in town here in the midwest. She comes home sometimes with blisters on her fingers from the wire. She makes $10 an hour. They just hired 20 Mexicans to do those jobs for $30 and some change a day.

Not everyone in America can work for minimum wage or less. GM just built a plant in Mexico. The people make $14 a day. If everyone made that, who would buy their products?

I dont know if Unions are the answer, but I think alot of people will agree something needs to be done. Whoever comes up with the answer will probably be the next president to win by a landslide.

 

[Champane Flight]

Exactly,Chad. I believe our children have both parents working now just to put food on the table. The Unions need a good overhauling and the workers need to pull together. The old ways have been figured out by the companys and corp. It is easy to bust Unions and then sponser there own teams to pit worker against worker.

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...

 

[Chad Sheets]

You said it. Look at that big CAT strike they had. Yurky or Jerky, whoever the Unions head mofo was at the time, should have pulled all the Union workers from Ford, Chryco and GM at the same time to get his peoples message through. Mess with one of us, mess with us all. After a couple weeks of that, things would have been fixed real quick.

My CAT facility isnt Union, and we get along pretty good. I make $20 an hour with a raise every 6 months. We have all the same benefits as the Union plants. CAT isnt doing that out of the kindness of their heart however, and I understand that. Whenever the morons I work with start crying about the Unions I am quick to remind them that if it wasnt for the Unions we wouldnt be getting treated as good as we are. Like I said, big companies dont give out free health care and big money jobs because they love the people. They do it because the American workforce and the Unions demand it.

Unions have gotten fat and ineficiant. Something has to give in America because the Mexican workforce will take over. They wont do it with guns like in a war. They will do it with a vote. They have been voting down there longer than we have, only thing is, down there, their vote doesnt mean anything. Up here it does. Power is in numbers, and they have the numbers. Take a look around you. Diversity in the work force is a good thing, but not everyone in America can work for beans.

 

[Champane Flight]

Our Unions should start organizing in Mexico! Of course down there they would have to dodge a few bullets. The big corps would hire some real thugs down there. Armed guards around your local steward!

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95 Dodge 2500 Luverne grill guard,headache rack,running boards and Amzoiled. Soon to be mildly bombed. 84 Dodge d-150, 318 Hooker headers,Edelbrok intake,mallory ignition,Carter Afb,Accel coil,and Custom dual exhaust. Boat,fifthwheel,motorcycles,and shop,job to support toys. Yuck...