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Does anyone have any knowledge/experience/both(?) of running a Hydraulic Take-Off facility direct from the transmission to drive an on-board air compressor, along with the air tank, discretely mounted under the bed?

(In Europe, the GVWR trailer legislation dictates air brakes for a flatbed, tri-axle vehicle trailer, with an all up weight of 9,000lbs GVWR. The space where the engine-mounted Cummins air compressor would usually go in 'other' big trucks with this engine is currently home to the power steering and vacuum pump units #ad
). Thanks!!

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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.
 
The 47RE transmission does not have provisions for a PTO. The Allison 1000 transmission that may be offered in 2002 or 2003 has PTO capability.

Why not use the powersteering pump (a hydraulic pump that powers the power steering and power brakes) to power the air compressor also. At least one winch company uses the power steering pump to power their winch. Small commercial fishing boats have been using powersteering pumps for small hydraulic circuits for decades.
 
Would it be feasable to use a voltage inverter(12 v to 110) and a small electric air compressor? There are some pretty good portable compressors on the market now. bg
 
Many thanks for this information. Pity about the lack of PTO on the 47RE transmission. I'll have to investigate powered take-offs from the existing OEM pump, which will not compromise my power (steeering and brakes). I'll research the marine applications indusrty also.

Any further suggestions would be very welcome.


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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.
 
There will be somw serious fabricating needed to use the air pump on our trucks that driven off the motor like the big trucks. The air pump has a mounting point for the P/S pump on the end of it. Problem is when you mount the air pump on the motor, then P/S pump. You are now back into motor mount, The PS pump will be sitting where the motor mount is. Good luck

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97 Dodge cab/chassis 1 ton,Allison at 545 4spd auto, Brown-Lipe 3spd auxillary, 4. 10's,11'flatbed w/ monorail, bd injectors, K&N filter,Cobra 29 CB, Wilson 2000, electcric & V/H brakes, 50 gal. aux tank, pulling 20' 12 k cap tag-along flatbed trailer,
214,000 miles and counting
86' ford 1 ton,4 spd, 4. 10's, 6. 9 non turbo,("slow motion"),4spd ,90gal. aux tank, elecric & V/H brakes, pulls 40' G/N flatbed w V/H brakes
187,000 and counting
 
Originally posted by illflem:
That's right Scooby,if John has a 4X4 there is an area for attaching a PTO on the transfer case.
Yes it is a 4x4. Can you elaborate on where a PTO could be conveniently mounted on the transfer case please? Cheers.


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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.
 
Originally posted by LARGE CAR:
There will be some serious fabricating needed to use the air pump on our trucks that's driven off the motor like the big trucks.

You're absolutely right - for precisely the reasons you have stated. That's the reason why I am still considering the ( best of all the available ) alternatives.



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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.
 
Originally posted by Scooby:
The PTO comes off the HD Transfer case, no?
Do you have any further details please?



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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.
 
As I understand only the "Heavy Duty" transfer case has the PTO provision, the standard transfer case doesn't. The PTO opening is covered by a small removable access plate.

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Wait'n for my 2001 2500QC, SB, 4x4, HO 6-sp, 4. 10 LSD, SLT++
 
John, one problem I invision with a compressor running off the transfer case PTO is that the rotation will change when you go into reverse(somebody correct me if I'm wrong),the PTO on a manual trans allways turns the same direction. You could disengage the PTO when you go in reverse,but for safety reasons it wouldn't be good,ie if you forget to reengage the PTO and run out of air pressure,most of the air brakes I'm familular with use the pressure to disengage the brakes you release air presure to go,thats why you hear that hiss of air when a big rig takes off,run out of air= brake lock up. All PTOs I've experenced need to be engaged when the vehical is stopped unless you don't mind grinding it in to engage. Ideally the compressor needs to be under the hood with no way to disengage it,but I don't see where there's room on a Dodge. Have you talked with Cummins they'd be the ones with the answers. In the meantime I'll think about this one as I'm interested also.
 
Sorry John, I don't know any more other than the HD transfer case (which I have) has PTO capability. I don't have a clue as to how to make it work... . I've only had it a few weeks!
 
I don't have any experince with PTO devices so I'll most likely add more questions than answer any.

Can the PTO be used while driving down the road?

The PTO on the HD transfer case is located on the passenger side of the truck it is a 6"x9" (I think that's the size) plate and has 6 bolts holding it on.

There are air compressors that replce the driveshaft support bearing. I know Vanair makes one but from what I read on their website it completly disconnects the driveline when in use. There may be able to make it be powered when moving down the road or another company might make one that is.

One problem with the PTO air compressors at least the ones I've seen is they are going to be VERY expensive because they are made to power jack hammers that use alot more air than air brakes will. If I remeber correctly I priced one close to $7,000 but it has been a while since I priced it.

Have you thought about removing the vacum pump and mounting the air compressor there then using a small electric vacum pump and tank to operate any vacum devices?

Another option might be to replace your altenator with one that has 110/220 output on it I belive I have seen them in a Northern tool catalog and use it to drive an electric air compressor. I'll post any info I find out about them if I can find my Northern catalog.

Oops I frogot to put in the web adresses. You can also use a search engine and come up with sevral companies that might have what you need. http://www.vanair.com/ http://www.bossair.com/

[This message has been edited by kaffine krazed (edited 07-12-2000). ]
 
Well what I thought was a alternator generator is just a generator so you would still have to find a place to put it. I'll continue to look and see what I can find.
 
Cummins have confirmed that there's no realistic option for mounting their engine driven compressor, because of the lack of space under the Dodge hood.
I've just come across this on the WWW as well - but haven't checked it out yet.
PTO Specialities

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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.
 
John,after thinking this over I feel the best way to go is with small hydralic motor close coupled to the compressor pump, powered by the power steering pump. You would also need to use a priority flow valve to ensure that the power steering gets first shot at the oil presure,extra flow would go to the compressor motor. This will be no problem for the PS pump since it is all ways pumping and reliving pressure anyways,in fact it may be better for the pump. 1/4 hose or tubing could be routed to a place that has some room,such as the passenger side underbed. The whole setup,including tank,should cost you well under $1000. A compressor pump rated at 1 HP,2-3 cfm should provide ample air,you may be able to use the Cummins air pump,depending on how it is driven(shaft or gear)
 
Appreciate the leads, but they're all dead ends unfortunately!! They all have units with CFM ratings which start around 60 and up - which is overkill and hence $$$. I'm still looking though.....
 
John:
I can't add too much to what you have already learned. What I can tell you is that your truck does have a PTO on the transfer case. All 3500's come with the 241HD transfer case that includes the 6-bolt PTO.

I am researching a PTO-powered hydraulic pump, so I can't help you with compressors.

It's nice to learn about the possibility that it will turn backwards with the truck in reverse. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks illflem.

The PTO will turn (perhaps in reverse) any time it's engaged and the transfer case is turning, that is, with the transmission in gear. This explains why transfer cases have a neutral, so you can use a PTO without moving the truck.

Good luck finding a compressor.

Loren

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2000 Quad Cab, 4x4, short bed, six-speed.
1995 Standard Cab, 4x4, long bed, automatic. (soon to be sold)
 
Originally posted by Loren:
... . What I can tell you is that your truck does have a PTO on the transfer case. All 3500's come with the 241HD transfer case that includes the 6-bolt PTO.
Good luck finding a compressor.
Thanks for the quality feedback - I'm a whole lot nearer to getting a workable solution and am very grateful to everyone whose chipped in with their comments, advice and helpful suggestions on TDRoundtable.
As soon as I get details of a viable solution, I'll post it here in this forum... in the meantime, if anyone stateside knows of a supplier/manufacturer in this area, please respond here or by email at your discretion. #ad




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JMc

2001 3500 QC, Sport, SLT+, 24v Cummins, 4X4 dually, Auto 3. 54/LSD, Long Bed, Red exterior w/Agate leather, all factory options, Line-X bedliner & underseal, Firestone Airbags, RS9000s, Reese class 5, 60 Gal Aerotank.
 
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