Average MPH & EGR Cleaning (Soot Build-up)

[Bater]

Hello all,



The 67500 mile "Perform Service" indicator came on the other day, reminding me that the CCV filter should be replaced, and that the EGR system should be cleaned. I had actually replaced the CCV filter at 62000 miles, as I suspected it was weeping a bit of oil, which you could occasionally get a whiff of as it burned off the engine.



Now I have started to research the issue of correct gaskets and cleaning procedure for the EGR system, but that has raised a question. Has anyone attempted a correlation between average mile per hour operation versus soot build-up?



My truck has quite a few highway miles, so dividing the hour meter tally into the total miles gives me about a 42 MPH average value. My impression is that this is on the high side, compared to those who use their vehicles more extensively in stop and go driving, and who in turn might suffer from a greater soot build-up. As such, maybe the EGR on my truck won't be so gummed up? (I also run with the exhaust brake on all the time. )



Oh, and yes I know I could just delete the EGR altogether. Anything is possible, once the warranty expires...



Andy

 

[KLauber]

Just unplug it at the drivers side actuator and then remove at the warranty expiration. Be sure to clean the MAP sensor which hides on the back side of the intake horn on the drivers side. Ignore the CEL and enjoy the increased MPGs.

 

[HBarlow]

Andy,

You are correct. We ran a comparison of operating hours vs. miles accumulated several years ago and 42mph is near the upper end of what was posted by various members. Many were in the low 30 mph range.

As to why your truck is sooting, I can't comment. Mine is a cab and chassis with different engine program and less smog crap but it was pristine clean at 70k miles when I replaced the CCV filter and cleaned the EGR.

 

[Bater]

EGR Service Pictures

I performed the EGR cleaning service the other day. It's a dirty time consuming project, took me about five hours. Involved lots of rags, disposable gloves, shop vac, paint brush, toothbrush, putty knife, Mopar EGR cleaning solution, torque wrenches, etc.



Attached are pictures of the EGR valve and grid heater before and after. (Apologies on the inconsistent orientation of the pictures. )



Summary comments:

1. EGR valve wasn't that dirty. It still operated freely versus the last one I cleaned (on an old Mercedes diesel) that was totally frozen up.
   
2. I had ordered an EGR cleaning gasket kit from an Internet vendor. Did not have all the correct gaskets, and I think they sent too much of the expensive cleaning fluid. (I will alert the vendor of those issues. )
   
3. One of the bolts that mounts the EGR valve to the air intake was very tight, almost like it was cross threaded from the factory. Cleaned all the bolts and holes with a tap and die, but still made me nervous.
   
4. It's a bear to get the pre grid heater air intake housing disassembled enough to get it off the top of the intake manifold.
   
5. The only thing I wish I had done differently, is to monitor the EGR real time operation with my OBD scanner before the cleaning. I did so afterwards during a test drive, and it modulated appropriately per the power requirements. It would have been interesting to note if there was any difference in EGR value before and after.
   

 

[EricBu12]

good post Bater. How many miles on your truck when you did it and what was your commute habits? freeway? stop and go?. . Tow a lot?

 

[Bater]

I did the cleaning service at 70450 miles. Just had to ignore that chime and Perform Service flag for a few weeks while I lined up the gaskets etc, and found the right day, in case something went wrong.

There are mostly highway miles on my truck. Calculates out to a high average miles per hour of operation. Towing is intermittent; hooked up the gooseneck trailer on Labor Day, first time since January. No snow plowing either. Occasional 4wd operation on the farm, and heavy equipment in the bed, but generally a relatively cushy life for the truck. (Interestingly, the other day I got my best mileage ever, with a 1500 lb flail mower in the back. I think it was because the tailgate was open!)

Oh, and I guess I should mention that I pretty much always run B5, but never any greater blend of biodiesel. It's nearly impossible to find B20 or B99 here in NJ and PA anyway, and of course they are a no-no warranty wise too.

 

[firemansdiesel]

I did the cleaning service at 70450 miles. Just had to ignore that chime and Perform Service flag for a few weeks while I lined up the gaskets etc, and found the right day, in case something went wrong.



There are mostly highway miles on my truck. Calculates out to a high average miles per hour of operation. Towing is intermittent; hooked up the gooseneck trailer on Labor Day, first time since January. No snow plowing either. Occasional 4wd operation on the farm, and heavy equipment in the bed, but generally a relatively cushy life for the truck. (Interestingly, the other day I got my best mileage ever, with a 1500 lb flail mower in the back. I think it was because the tailgate was open!)



Oh, and I guess I should mention that I pretty much always run B5, but never any greater blend of biodiesel. It's nearly impossible to find B20 or B99 here in NJ and PA anyway, and of course they are a no-no warranty wise too.

Did you clean out the EGR Cooler also?

 

[Bater]

James, a good question indeed.



No, I did not take apart the EGR cooler when I did the other cleaning. Mainly this is because at the time I couldn't find the instructions how to do it. They are not in the Exhaust Gas Recirculation portion of section 25 Emissions Control in the shop manual. However, this morning, after your note, I dug through the manual again and did find them at the end of the engine portion, section 7, under "Cooler-EGR".



I had ordered the gaskets to do this "Cooler-EGR" service, so now a bit of a dilemma whether to do this task, since it's probably at least a three hour job between disassembly, soaking/cleaning, and reassembly. When I was cleaning the downstream components I was thinking to myself that those weren't really all that dirty, and probably as such the "Cooler-EGR" was likely to be relatively good inside. I need to do some more research to corroborate or discredit that thinking.



(For those who have never seen this Chrysler manual set, it's composed of six volumes each the size of a 70s era NYC phone book. My '91 CTD service manual is half the thickness of one of these books, although admittedly this '08 Dodge truck version also covers gas engines too. )



Andy

 

[EricBu12]

Bater. . The tailgate down for mileage has been busted by the mythbusters. . They drove 2 identical trucks. . filled with the same amount of gas. . one had tailgate up, one down. . the one with the gate up went 40 miles further than the one down before running out of gas.

The Science is the bubble of air in the bed acts as a tonneau cover and the air slips over it. . the gate down, there is more turbulence behind the cab and under the gate creating more resistance. . I have a soft roll up cover and I consistantly get 15 mpg. city and hwy.

 

[HBarlow]

That's true. Also, an old truck or RV trailer magazine I once subscribed to 20 or more years ago did a similar test and developed the same results.

An area of pressured air is created in the bed when the tailgate is up that acts exactly like a smooth and aerodynamic bed cover streamlining air flow over the bed.

Removing or folding the tailgate down allows air to swirl around the back end of the bed and develop a pressure barrier to air flow.

 

[Bater]

Thanks guys, I watched the Mythbusters episode where they revisited this and again proved that the tailgate down was of no benefit. Probably my good mileage the other day was a combination of the mower pretty much filling the entire bed (acting like that tonneau cover), and the fact that I drove a little slower too.



Interesting that the Mythbusters team found that removing the tailgate and installing one of those mesh screens was the best. I would be afraid to do that for fear some shovel etc would rattle out onto the road. Not to mention that the tailgate often serves as my "bench".



Every time I see a truck with a tonneau cover I am reminded of my '81 Chevy Luv diesel. I had one of those covers on that truck, that is until one day when working atop a hilltop communications site the wind wrapped it over the top of the cab.

 

[Bater]

EGR Cooler Cleaning

I performed the EGR Cooler cleaning service the other day. It was about a five hour project, not including various prep steps.

My comments:

1. It's an extremely dirty and tedious task.
2. The instructions and illustrations in the service manual version that I have ('08) don't appear to be 100% correct, particularly with regard to the EGR cooler bypass valve.
3. I started a separate thread about what a pain just the radiator drain plug is.
4. Know that there are two latches on the electrical connector for the EGR cooler bypass valve.
5. There is a stiff spring wire between the bypass valve motor and the valve proper. I replaced the rivet on one end with a bolt, so I could flop the motor out of the way. My suspicion is that the wire spring is to prevent the little cables between the motor and valve body from being overextended during assembly etc. Maybe you can just cut the darn thing. (This was one of my prep steps done a few weeks before the service proper. )
6. BTW, great write-up on the EGR cooler bypass valve here: 6. 7 Cummins-EGR Cooler Bypass - AutoPro Workshop Blog post - Where Professionals Gather for Better Business
7. Some of the tool clearances are very tight. For instance, I could only reach the nuts on the manifold with the length of my breaker-bar and torque wrench, not with a plain ratchet.
8. Buy yourself a pair of real constant tension hose clamp pliers, you won't regret it. A few of the clamps are in awkward places.
9. Even though I partially drained the cooling system, there was still some anti-freeze left in the EGR cooler that spilled
10. I soaked and cleaned the EGR cooler for about an hour and a half, including three different baths of the EGR cleaner. Letting it just soak for another hour or so might have been an alternative.
11. It took a good twenty minutes with a garden hose before I was satisfied that enough of the cleaning solution residue had been washed out, i. e. the water was running clear with only a few bubbles.
12. I used a high speed air blower to dry the inside of the unit once it was clean.
13. You need metric and SAE tools, as for some reason the vent allen head plug and body are SAE.
14. I had to use both allen wrench and counter-acting open end wrench on the vent body, as that plug turned out to be about the tightest part on the truck.
15. During the refill process I actually did see bubbles come out the top of the vent fitting at first. Then, just coolant.
16. After completing with the cooling refill procedure per the manual, it still took a couple hours for the coolant to drain back out of the anti-airlock/expansion (Miller 8195) funnel. Time not included in my five hour tally.
17. Oh, and the Miller funnel did not fit the coolant reserve tank like the manual said it would.

Net-net, I have seen posts saying dealers charge $1200 or so for the EGR valve and cooler service. That may well be a bargain considering the amount of consumables you need to purchase, special tools you should have, and your time!

Andy

 

[EricBu12]

Good post and pics Bater. . How much in supplies did this cost? I have a number of tools. . a hose plier is all I would really need. .

 

[Bater]

The gaskets and cleaner for the EGR cooler, EGR valve, and grid intake heater housing were about $140. 00. Probably another few dollars in miscellaneous stuff like anti-freeze, gloves, etc.



The Miller funnel and the cable operated hose clamp pliers cost me about $45 a piece, and I spent another $250 on the service manual. Of course that stuff can be used again.



Andy

 

[SRichards]

i think I'll just delete it rather than do all that!!!!JMO

 

[Bater]

Tough to argue with you SRichards, it's a surprising amount of work. Really makes me hope that the life-cycle analysis benefit of this EGR and DPF gear actually works out positive.



What would be really nice, was if this service wasn't necessary until 100k miles. 67k comes before you know it. At 100k, well then it could be part of changing the coolant etc. I suspect that the Chrysler and Cummins engineers would have done that if they could. Probably just a little too long an interval for the variation of driving conditions that these trucks might be subject to. (I started this thread wondering just how dirty the EGR gear on my mostly highway mileage truck would be. The answer, nowhere near clogged, but still filthy!)



Andy

 

[HBarlow]

I had a former Dodge dealership mechanic clean mine when it had 70k or 75k miles. It took him a very short time to do the job. I'm sure he had done it many times so was familiar with all the steps and knew the shortcuts. I paid him a $100. Mine was almost clean as new. I think the service interval could easily have been extended to 100k miles on the cab and chassis.

 

[Bater]

Harvey, that is a good friend to have!



I would be curious to know what the official shop time allowance is on each of these cleaning procedures. I haven't found that while Googling, although did find a dealer in Texas that will do the entire 67. 5k service (and a forced desooting-regen) for $499 tax included. That sounds like an incredible bargain. See:Mike Perry Dodge Service Specials



Andy

 

[HBarlow]

Actually, he is a friend of mine also but more a good friend of my good friend and long time mechanic who was also a Dodge mechanic at the same dealership when I met him 10 years ago. He has done all of my routine maintenance and repair ever since.

Both of them work on Volvo agricultural equipment for the same company now.

I have an appt. with my mechanic friend this coming weekend to do a 110k mile service on my truck. I have serviced this truck, just like the previous two, every 10k miles. Yeah, I know, the manual calls for more often and if I don't follow the owner's manual the sky will fall - but it hasn't so far.

The 110k service is only going to be engine oil and filter, fuel filter, and air filter but I always pay him to do the easy ones as well as the more challenging service. I'm not putting many miles on the truck anymore since I bought a Goldwing in January.

 

[LBARTLETT]

I've wondered if a person was going to delete at 67,500 miles should you do the delete before the service or right after the service?



I know sure how all of these things work and what is still used after deleting?



Also, if you do the delete without cleaning when and if you ever go back to stock then I would assume you need to do the cleaning?



The reason I'm asking these questions is with the 67,500 service costing $600 or more that makes a big dent is a simple delete kit like a smarty jr. and a pipe for $850



thanks for any advice in advance