2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Axle hop?!

[HoleshotHolset]

What is it caused by and how do I get rid of it? (please don't say ladder-bars!)



I did a small goofy 4x4 launch in the snow the other week and I had a ton of axle hop. Nobody was around to verify if it was the front or rear axle... .



So, which axle usually hops in a situation like this? It was bad enough to shake the tools around behind the seat... . so I only did it once as to avoid drivetrain breakage.



Matt

 

[Berrigan]

Usually what causes this hop is axle rap up. Whether yours was front or rear you would have to have someone watch when you dumped the clutch. As you said not good in a truck like ours.



On the rear for instance when the clutch is released the axle tries to rotate. The front of the pinion tries to go up towards the bottom of the bed. 1/4 mile cars use traction bars or bigger pinion snubbers to limit rap up. Thats ok on a car that doesnt have much suspension travel. On our trucks it really doesnt work cause the rear needs to be able to travel up and down so much.



What does work on the trucks is a stronger thicker spring pack. See in order for the axle to rotate a little it needs the spring to go with it. A wimpy set of leaf springs will rap up with torque then as the tire losses traction the spring will unrap. Some times the tire gets traction again and the spring raps and the process repeats. THUD THUD THUD.



Make sure all bolts and fasteners are tight un u-bolts and spring mounting bolts. If there loose they will cause wheel hop. If there tight try adding springs to the pack. Ive always felt some wheel hop on all light trucks ive driven under the right conditions. Three quarter tons not as bad . One tons even better. Camper specials one tons with overloads the best. The thicker the spring pack The more it resists rapping up. Also if your truck is lifted the spacer block between the axle and spring worsens the geometry and makes hop worse. The thicker the spacer block the more hop.



good luck

 

[RKohn]

OK, I won't say... . LADDER BARS!!!



You could just remove the lift blocks in the rear, but then you'd be going uphill all the time, unless you spend the $$$ and get a set of properly arched springs that eliminate the need for them.

 

[Dane]

Roadmaster active suspension helps a lot. Check the classifieds. Other option is to get rid of the lift block as RKohn stated. The lift block acts as a torque arm and multiplies the twisting torque to the spring pack. The closer the axle is to the springs the less hop.

 

[Rob Thomas]

Matt, It's not the front, the front has 4-link, therefore no rotation of the axle, no need for someone to watch for it. It is from the rear, what happens is the as you mash the throttle, the axle rotates, and turns the front portion of the leaf springs into an "s" shape.



Traction bars do work on our trucks, I have them, and they work great, on snow, on sand, drag racing, and sled-pulling, towing trailers, hauling heavy loads in the bed, and every other instance I can think of.



Eliminating the blocks and getting re-arched springs won't solve the problem, you need something to keep the axle from rotating, ladder bars, traction bars, or 4-link rear suspension, all do this.



Later, Rob



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[Sled Puller]

Spring clamps!!!

Are a band -aid, but got me through the rest of the season with minimal carnage.



I am working on the end all traction bar now, it will be welded to the axle, directly under the frame, and go clear to the double frame part up by the cab.



Have to lose the sway bar.



Will it work? Will it be streetable?

Hell, I don't know, but painted red, it will look spiffy!



No more tinker toys!

 

[JGK]

Ladder bars

Ladder bars

Ladder bars... .



I'm sorry, I just can't help myself.



But I'm thinkin' it's the simplest and most direct solution.





Ladder bars. It rolls off the tongue so easily.





Ladder bars.



-Jay

 

[Rob Thomas]

Originally posted by JGK

Ladder bars

Ladder bars

Ladder bars... .



I'm sorry, I just can't help myself.



But I'm thinkin' it's the simplest and most direct solution.





Ladder bars. It rolls off the tongue so easily.





Ladder bars.



-Jay

Sooooooooo, what are you tryin' to say?:-laf



Later, Rob

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Oh well... . I was hoping to not have to install a set... but I guess I really need 'em.



I won't be able to pull a radio-flyer wagon at the rate I'm going at now... .



Are the ladder bars still cracking people's frames like they were for a while?



Matt

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I have another 30k on mine since I had the frame repaired and added doubler plates to the mounts to spread the load. The forward mount now has an 1/8" steel plate on both sides of the frame that's about 6"x22" (sized them to fit the available area). Thus far no additional cracking.

 

[mschoenheider]

I experienced sever axle wrap on my rock crawling Cherokee, which led to me converting the rear leaf spring suspension into a four link with coils. I am not familiar with the frame cracking problems experienced by some people on their rams with ladder bars, but I would guess it is due to the suspension binding up against the ladder bars. As you leaf springs compress, the axle travels slightly toward the rear of the vehicle. Ladder bars that are rigidly mounted to the frame do not allow for this movement, and thus an axial load is created in the ladder bar which tries to rip the mount off the frame. One solution that I have seen work extremely well on jeeps is to mount the front of the ladder bar to the frame with a vertical shackle setup similar to the one on the rear of your leaf springs. The shackle will allow the front on the ladder bar to travel forward and backward. This will get rid of the bind, and you shouldn't need to brace the frame. The rear of the ladder bar is usually connected to two points on the axle, usually one above the axle centerline and one below the axle centerline. With this setup, the ladder bar would rotate with the axle, but because the front mount of the ladder bar is only allowed to travel front to back, the axle cannot rotate, or wrap. I'll see if I can dig up a picture that shows a setup that I have described.

Mark

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Steve... . sounds like the issue is solved... .



Mark... . I'd like to see pics, that setup sounds pretty interesting.



Matt

 

[mschoenheider]

Here's a link to a setup like I described above. These are prety easy to make yourself if you can weld and have access to a drill press. If interested, pm me and I'll give you some places to get parts. I would go with poly bushings or heim joints instead of the Johny joints for our Rams which mostly stay on road. I can also build one for you and send it out for you to install if you're interested. I haven't needed one on mine yet becasue it doesn't have blocks, and I don't have that much power, yet.

Mark



http://www.4x4review.com/products/suspension/traction-bar.asp

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Mark:



That setup is SWEET!



Matt