Back to Back to Back, Chev Ford and Dodge

[JoshPeters]

Alright, Duluth Diesel and I being the great friends we are, and he being in town for work decided we were going to be bored for the evening. So what would 2 good buddies do? Go harrass the Ford, Chevy and Dodge dealerships. All these trucks were Brand new, less than 400 miles. We probably could have done most of our testing with a Salesman... but what they dont' know won't hurt them! :-laf



05 Ford, 6. 0, 4door, short bed, 3/4 ton, 5speed Automatic, 4x4

05 Chev, 6. 6, 4door, short bed, 3/4 ton, 5speed Automatic, 4x4

05 Dodge, 5. 9 Cummins, 4door, Short bed, 3/4 ton, 4speed Automatic, 4x4.



First we drove the Ford. What is this a gasser? No power to 2800rmp, and power up to 3500. Again... no life at all till 2800. Dead horse. OK, no good for towing, but when it's in the power band it seems to go ok. Just OK. The Transmission is terrible. :{ Full throttle upshifts were detuned by the computer :-{} ... . the engine would litterally Defuel to 0, shift and come back on. Sure it's a close ratio 5spd, that's nice, the only reason we can figure that they have that is to keep the engine in the miniscule power band. It rides better than the other Fords we have driven, but still feels kind of wishy washy.



We drove the Chevy Last... Overall a pretty good truck. Better than the Ford. Rides more like a car. The Allison and the Duramax seem to communicate well. Put it in tow haul mode and the engine will actually "pre-rev" before grabbing the next lowist gear. Pretty slick. The engine is similar to the Ford, Lots of revs, but you have to use them to get into the power band. The power band seems to be bigger than the Ford. This is a LARGE improvement over when this engine and transmission combination that first came out. We took the first Duramax/Allison trucks in the state out when they were first available. At that time it seemed they put a bus trans behind the engine. There was just no communication.



We drove the Dodge 2nd, due to the Ford and Dodge dealerships being under the same roof. The Dodge, yes has a smaller cab. The layout of the cab seemed to be a little more thought out. The radio could be understood! The engine seemed to ALWAYS be in the power band. Sure it only has a 4spd auto, but that's all it needs. Pulling off a stoplight slowly, it grabbed 3rd and as Duluth Diesel rolled into the throttle it stayed in that gear and pulled it 1200rpm up to the redline of 3000. No dramatic downshifts 2 gears down like the others, just torque. Overall the ride was slightly more firm than the Ford, but you could feel the road. The Ford suspension seemed much easier to upset over rough roads than the Dodge. The only "complaint" we both have is the steering in the 3rd Gen truck seems almost hyper-sensitive. It took very little hand motion to get a large reaction out of the truck. This is very different than what WE are used to in our 2nd Gen trucks. The Ford steering what closer to what we are used to. The Dodge's brakes were Hands Down the best of the 3. The Ford was second, and the Chevy's were terrible. A distant 3rd.



For just daily driving around town getting the groceries I can understand why people would go with the Chevy. The Ford was build for more "work" but the engine isn't up to the task. The Dodge seems to have the best of all worlds, and has an engine that will last beyond the others and is worth listening to. If you want a High Reving no torque engine... buy a gasser.



Out of all 3, the "beating" test Oo. ... . Off the line the Dodge took off the best, Chirping the tires when grabbing second. The Ford and Chev needed a LIBERAL amount of throttle and heavy amount of brake to get the tires to do anything more than roll. The Dry Pavement Full Throttle U-turn test... The Ford didn't care if it was going straight or turning. Not even a tire complaint. The Chev got a little better... but still not even a complaint. The Dodge Easily and happily lit the tires and fishtailed for around 30feet. The Dodge was ready to go when we wanted it how we wanted it. Power NOW. Ford... if you can find the power band peak (good luck) I'm sure it would keep up with the Dodge. The Chevy was smoother, had a larger power band, but didn't get as "crazy" as even the Ford did with the power.



Ford last, 3rd place. Miniscule power band, wishy washy suspension, and did I say no power?

We Give the Chevy the 2nd place nod for the larger powerband and better ride. It is a more refined truck than the Ford, the engine and transmission actually communicate.

Dodge First. The best overall package of the 3.



Don't just take our word for it... . Drive ALL 3 Back to back! We both went in open minded really looking for a new truck. We know which truck we would buy. :-laf



Just our . 04... .



Josh and Chuck

 

[Buddy's Ram]

I haven't driven a Ford or a Chevy but your descriptions of the Dodge sound right on to me. I kinda like the quick steering response, I am a very relaxed driver and the quick steering suits my style. I really love the vastly improved brakes over my 94 Dodge.

 

[coolky]

Josh thanks for the information it is really interesting. Do you have any chevy buddies? I have a bunch and they all crap chevy. I would like to see a die hard "chevy duramax guy" drive a cummins once and see what he thinks. Most people around where I live think the Duramax is the best thing out there. Granted it is a good motor but I would like to see a chevy guy drive a cummins once.

 

[JoshPeters]

I have a bunch and they all crap chevy.

No wonder they are everywhere! :-laf :-laf No I don't really know anyone with a Duramax. They are smarter than that!



Josh

 

[dslmacdown]

I have driven all three brand back to back to back a few times. I agree with every word you said Josh. The Cummins power is soooo smooth and turbo spools instantly, but it is not enough to make me trade in my 02'.



Chris

 

[Jefff929]

***, but it is not enough to make me trade in my 02'.



Chris

right on



IMO The best mid year change ever was 4 wheel disk.



Hyjack} Next bombing move: fuel system upgrade, DD3's

Why DD3's? just more...

DD3's would require 4" and i'm not feeling that rich, Bombing poorer all the time.

 

[curatchko]

Well, you did a nice review, but you seem a little biased, which is expected being a member of TDR



I have driven an 05 ford with the 5 speed auto and there ain't NO WAY our dodges can run with them either towing, nor empty. Nice try, but no dice. Maybe you got a dud or something but the Ford will lite the tires like RIGHT NOW from a stand still, not doing any fancy u-turns, and not applying the brake.



I don't like Ford, and I dont like Ford products, but I know for a fact that Ford has the lead right now in terms of power and their transmission shifts like a dream... . and is ALWAYS where it needs to be in terms of which gear is the right one.



It's just a better package..... Unfortunately.

 

[JoshPeters]

Sorry Curatchko... No Bias on this run. The Ford's transmission shifted WAY worse than any of the others. The Ford would litterally cut the throttle for the shift. The nifty little boost guage on the dash even dropped! 2800rmp for power... . That's not gonna keep up with the Dodges in my world. I have 2 friends with 05's, one Ford one Dodge. Of course they think theirs is the best. If I could only locate a trailer CLOSE to the same size and weight for each... . we could do a real test.



Josh

 

[DPelletier]

Well, you did a nice review, but you seem a little biased, which is expected being a member of TDR



I have driven an 05 ford with the 5 speed auto and there ain't NO WAY our dodges can run with them either towing, nor empty. Nice try, but no dice. Maybe you got a dud or something but the Ford will lite the tires like RIGHT NOW from a stand still, not doing any fancy u-turns, and not applying the brake.



I don't like Ford, and I dont like Ford products, but I know for a fact that Ford has the lead right now in terms of power and their transmission shifts like a dream... . and is ALWAYS where it needs to be in terms of which gear is the right one.



It's just a better package..... Unfortunately.

Not the Ford 6. 0 that I drove. Power was extremely light off idle and truck wouldn't move out well without alot of rpm's and downshifting. Torque is way low compared to a Cummins in the lower rpm ranges. Find a dyno sheet and compare the two if you don't believe me. I drive a 6spd and likely always will so any transmission comparisons are irrelevant to me, but as far as motors go, I was not impressed by the Ford at all.

Very little low end torque and most of its power is made at too high an rpm.

Fine for a sports car, not so fine for a HD pickup truck.



Dave

 

[Coolslice]

I too thought that it was common knowledge that the 6. 0 will walk all over the 5. 9 in terms of speed and what not. I just wouldn't want one for the fact that they seem to be the most untrustworthy of the bunch.

 

[dslmacdown]

I agree all three Powerjokes I drove were weak with almost a dead pedal below 2000 rpms.

 

[cpeters]

My wife drives a 02 duramax allison and I finally towed the 10k load that I have pulled with my dodge many times on the same route, It does fine and would even hold 5th gear on some small tx hills at full throttle as long as you rolled into it, that said while holding 5th on the hills it would lose speed and the only way you could hold your speed is downshift and scream up it, that is ok for some people but its not my style I like to cruise along @ 2000 rpm and when I come to the hills just roll in a little more throttle and the cummins will torque right over with a little deeper tone and not lose any speed. As far as ford goes the new coil 4x4 05's ride very nice and turn really sharp the truck accelerates fast and its a great truck but has too many problems, example customer of mine had his 04 run away from him into the side of a local bank he gave it 1/2 throttle and it gave itself the other 1/2, his reaction was to hit the brakes but it was wet so the front brakes locked and the rears just pushed him into the bank. I have not towed with the duramax vgt so I can't say how it performes but I love my wifes chevy and she does too, by the way I only drive it to church... . My cummins is also more efficent about 1. 5-2. 0mpg better.

 

[curatchko]

Well my bud with an 05 Ford 6. 0 must have a fluke truck then because that thing will walk all over My 04, my buddys 03, and another buddys 05 Dodge.



Personally I really don't care. As I said I don't like Fords and they will never again get my business. But I Drove that 05 Ford for it's first 3000 miles towing a 12000 pound racecar trailer across the country, right out of the dealership with 50 miles on it, and I have been around these trucks long enough to know, and admitt that My dodge, or any 05 Dodge will not hold the road with that Ford, and the engine is NO slouch out of the gate.

 

[Boosted Inline Six]

The new Dieselpower Magazine did a test and said the Dodge was the fastest 0 to 60

Dodge 8. 85

Ford 8. 95

Chevy 8. 99

Quarter Mile

Dodge 16. 80

Ford 16. 83

Chevy 16. 93



The Ford was faster towing a trailer!

 

[DPelletier]

Well my bud with an 05 Ford 6. 0 must have a fluke truck then because that thing will walk all over My 04, my buddys 03, and another buddys 05 Dodge.



Personally I really don't care. As I said I don't like Fords and they will never again get my business. But I Drove that 05 Ford for it's first 3000 miles towing a 12000 pound racecar trailer across the country, right out of the dealership with 50 miles on it, and I have been around these trucks long enough to know, and admitt that My dodge, or any 05 Dodge will not hold the road with that Ford, and the engine is NO slouch out of the gate.

He must have.



Bottom line: Ford 325hp, 570 ft lbs

Dodge 325hp, 610 ft lbs



In addition, the Dodge torque curve is virtually flat from 1400 rpm to 2800 rpm. Either peoples' perceptions are off, one of the manufacturers is lying or that torqueshift is magic, because the numbers and dyno charts have the Ford on the short end of the stick.

The one I drove was lame. I couldn't believe that someone could drive the Cummins and the 6. 0PSD back to back and not think the same thing.



Dave

 

[JoshPeters]

Well my bud with an 05 Ford 6. 0 must have a fluke truck and admitt that My dodge, or any 05 Dodge will not hold the road with that Ford, and the engine is NO slouch out of the gate.

Or he's chipped and not telling! Even at that, I dont' care... out of the gate, it was a dog. No if's and's or but's. I have driven Gasser trucks with more power low end. A Chevy 350 from the 90's has more. I'm sorry, but if your perception of torque is that different from mine..... and apparently most others on the TDR..... 1400 to 3000 VS 2800 to 3500... . which would you rather have? Can you say NARROW power band? Less than 1000rpm VS more than 1500rpm? The Mags may not be right all the time. I'm the first to admit that there are times I don't agree with them... . but the facts are facts. Honestly... I think most guys are used to the pull of a gasser. They want to be pulled back in their seat hard at one point... and a little more as they hit the peak. Sorry..... the Cummins will set you in the seat once... and pull THAT hard the entire time. I'm not on this site to argue, I'm not on this site to knock anyone down, I'm here to point out what I know, and what I've seen. Dyno both trucks. "Borrow" both for a half hour... . make it worth your while... and see what they both do? Spend the $100 on a couple dyno runs. See what the Curves look like! I know what they look like.



The 7. 3 Powerstroke wasn't a good engine till the 6. 0 came out!



Josh

 

[JUeckert]

the 7. 3 wasnt a good engine til the 6. 0 came out. now i know you are biased. ive been around these trucks since gm used the 5. 7 conversion,everyday. gm ford and dodge. ive owned 2 or more of all of them,got a endless list of friends, relatives that own them also,most, myself included, make a liveing with these trucks towing everyday. short and simple,in independent test,and personal experience,on the highway the 6. 0 is a better performer. in terms of performance the the ford auto is superior to the dodge auto,no doubt about it. yes i have been out test driveing lately also,most likely i will be driveing a new dodge home,but it aint because it perfomed better than a new 6. 0 ford.

 

[DPelletier]

the 7. 3 wasnt a good engine til the 6. 0 came out. now i know you are biased. ive been around these trucks since gm used the 5. 7 conversion,everyday. gm ford and dodge. ive owned 2 or more of all of them,got a endless list of friends, relatives that own them also,most, myself included, make a liveing with these trucks towing everyday. short and simple,in independent test,and personal experience,on the highway the 6. 0 is a better performer. in terms of performance the the ford auto is superior to the dodge auto,no doubt about it. yes i have been out test driveing lately also,most likely i will be driveing a new dodge home,but it aint because it perfomed better than a new 6. 0 ford.

Perhaps the torqueshift is better than the 48RE. Take that out of the equation and drive the standards back to back. The 6. 0 PSD has less power than the CTD and the torque curve situation is even worse. I've driven many of them as well.

And the 7. 3 was a real POS. It only looks good next to the 6. 0. I had two of them and one cost me $10,000. 00 in 30 months of ownership. Cackle, cavity corrosion and those horrible (and expensive) HEUI injectors all conspired to make the 7. 3 a bad experience all-around. Both trucks had cold start issues as well (towed to the dealer several times).

I have noticed that almost everybody that argues that the Ford is faster/better drives an automatic. Maybe that's part of the issue.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[JUeckert]

Perhaps the torqueshift is better than the 48RE. Take that out of the equation and drive the standards back to back. The 6. 0 PSD has less power than the CTD and the torque curve situation is even worse. I've driven many of them as well.

And the 7. 3 was a real POS. It only looks good next to the 6. 0. I had two of them and one cost me $10,000. 00 in 30 months of ownership. Cackle, cavity corrosion and those horrible (and expensive) HEUI injectors all conspired to make the 7. 3 a bad experience all-around. Both trucks had cold start issues as well (towed to the dealer several times).

I have noticed that almost everybody that argues that the Ford is faster/better drives an automatic. Maybe that's part of the issue.



Cheers,

Dave

if you are implying that i own a auto in my fords,or any other tow vehicle for that matter,you are wrong,i wouldnt have one. point is,the trq shift is a better performer,and the 6. 0 i would suspect be a better performer with the old or new auto ,its called rpms,and the fact it can hit those rpms makes it a better driver, its peak power is also at those higher rpms,and if you think about it ,next time your driveing down the highway at 65 to 70 mph look at your tach,thats the rpms you will be towing at,thats the rpms the 6. 0 tows best at. as for your 7. 3 woes too bad,some people have probs some dont,i have two 24v dodges in the family now,one just spent over $1500 getting his injection pump replaced because of the lift pump failure at 60k miles. the other is doing well ,but only has 20k on it so for. now my best friend on the other had had a 01 with a little over 100k on it,memory serves me correct he lost a injector cup seal,started getting fuel in the oil or water,dont remember which,it cost him a new engine. [i say his truck,its his personal work truck]. problems can happen,no matter what the brand.

 

[DPelletier]

if you are implying that i own a auto in my fords,or any other tow vehicle for that matter,you are wrong,i wouldnt have one. point is,the trq shift is a better performer,and the 6. 0 i would suspect be a better performer with the old or new auto ,its called rpms,and the fact it can hit those rpms makes it a better driver, its peak power is also at those higher rpms,and if you think about it ,next time your driveing down the highway at 65 to 70 mph look at your tach,thats the rpms you will be towing at,thats the rpms the 6. 0 tows best at. as for your 7. 3 woes too bad,some people have probs some dont,i have two 24v dodges in the family now,one just spent over $1500 getting his injection pump replaced because of the lift pump failure at 60k miles. the other is doing well ,but only has 20k on it so for. now my best friend on the other had had a 01 with a little over 100k on it,memory serves me correct he lost a injector cup seal,started getting fuel in the oil or water,dont remember which,it cost him a new engine. [i say his truck,its his personal work truck]. problems can happen,no matter what the brand.

No implications here. I just want to confine the discussion to the 6. 0 vs the 5. 9. Like you, I only buy manuals so any superiority of the Ford transmission is nothing more than an interesting aside to me.

As far as the RPM range goes, I disagree that the Ford's powerband offers it any particular advantage. That's why I have a 6 spd. When I look down, low and behold, I'm at the peak power rpm for the Cummins! I do that on purpose, of course. The broader powerband and extreme torque advantage at lower rpms makes the Cummins a better towing motor IMO, not to mention the effect of the lower rpm on longevity. The Cummins just takes less rpm to make more than the Fords rated torque.

While I will also agree that any brand vehicle can have problems both the 6. 0 PSD and the 7. 3 PSD statistically have way more of them than the Cummins. Not my opinion, just the facts. $1500. 00 for an injection pump doesn't sound too bad for me after replacing four 7. 3 HEUI injectors at $1,200. 00 EACH!.



Anyway, I guess we will agree to disagree. If everyone agreed with me we would all be driving Cummins/NV5600 trucks.



Cheers,

Dave