2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Bad tie rod joints ? Clues to look for ?

[DBazley]

At the risk of being repetitive (with the other thread I started), I'd be curious to see what symptoms others may have noticed when their steering tie rod / ball joints went bad or started to wear ?



At this point on my 4 by4 Ram, it seems to be *JUST* a funny noise / feel in the steering wheel, truck still goes pretty straight, especially with the 'standard' upgrades already done (you know, DSS, Luke's Linked Track Bar, new control arms & bushings, Borgeson shaft, Poly sway bar bushings) My main concern here is how to distinguish that it is indeed the tie rod joints causing the funny noise / feel in the steering wheel (over rough pavement) - for example, could'nt it be upper or lower balljoints just as easily ?



Any thoughts ?



Much thanks !



David B.

 

[nps]

I found that the adjusting sleeve bolts for the drag link (where it connects to the steering box pitman arm) were positioned such that they would hit the sway bar. Loosened them and moved it slightly, no more clunk. My steering wheel is off center by 5*, but better than hearing the clunk.



To check tie rod ends, raise one side of the front and holding the sides of the tire attempt to move it back and forth, as if you were steering. Look at both the tie rod joints. Any play and it is bad. You may also see some play caused by the track bar. While you have it up, now hold the top and bottom of the tire and attempt to move them in and out. Look at the ball joints - any play and they are bad. Repeat for the other side.



Your shock bolts could also be loose. Check both the upper and lower mounts, and put some good torque on the bottom bolt.

 

[DBazley]

Thanks NPS, I'll do that check you describe ASAP. Here's some thoughts pasted from the other thread on this, when a fellow advised how to use the Luke's Link to rebuild the tie rod assembly:



Thanks to you both for the details on your replacement job. I'll do the checking that was suggested on my other thread about 'checking for ball joint wear' to veryify that it is indeed the steering links.



I kind of suspect it cause:



1- It's felt through the steering wheel, not the floor or pedals.

2- I've had 19. 5's on now for 50 k miles, truck has near 150 k

3- I just put on new, heavier 19. 5's and then after a 4000 mile trip, the noise starts up louder and more pronounced that it was earlier - very faint and occassional before now.

4-The 19. 5 tire / wheel assembly is very heavy, twice a stock one. Must put a lot of increased strain on the ball joints, eh ?





But one questions occurs - when the wear happens to the tie rod ball joints, what part wears ? I ask because the Luke's link is still re-using, and dependant upon the integrity of the ball / stud piece. If that is compromised by wear, can the Luke's link make up for it ?



Thoughts or ideas ? Much appreciate as always,



Merry Christmas to all !

 

[nps]

Can't personally say - don't have any experience with Lukes. However my understanding of the rebuild process would conclude that there isn't an issue with worn joints - the rebuild should work ok. But have you compared the cost/hassle of Lukes to the cost of some good, greasable new ends?

 

[McLaughlin]

I found that the adjusting sleeve bolts for the drag link (where it connects to the steering box pitman arm) were positioned such that they would hit the sway bar. Loosened them and moved it slightly, no more clunk. My steering wheel is off center by 5*, but better than hearing the clunk.



To check tie rod ends, raise one side of the front and holding the sides of the tire attempt to move it back and forth, as if you were steering. Look at both the tie rod joints. Any play and it is bad. You may also see some play caused by the track bar. While you have it up, now hold the top and bottom of the tire and attempt to move them in and out. Look at the ball joints - any play and they are bad. Repeat for the other side.



Your shock bolts could also be loose. Check both the upper and lower mounts, and put some good torque on the bottom bolt.

NPS,

Some good information you provided. Regarding the ball joints, according to the service manual any movement of more than . 030 in for either the top or bottom ball joint means they should be replaced. I'm not sure how easy it is to see that small a movement. Also, according to the manual the side to side movement check is for the upper ball joint and the check for the lower ball joint is an up and down movement. The manual suggested putting something like a lever under the tire when moving it up and down.

 

[McLaughlin]

T

-- Bunch cut ---



But one questions occurs - when the wear happens to the tie rod ball joints, what part wears ? I ask because the Luke's link is still re-using, and dependant upon the integrity of the ball / stud piece. If that is compromised by wear, can the Luke's link make up for it ?



Thoughts or ideas ? Much appreciate as always,



Merry Christmas to all !

I talked to the guys at Luke's Links and asked this exact question before I installed mine. I was told that as long as more than 1/2 the stud ball was still inside the tie rod socket you were probably OK. When I was replacing mine, I couldn't see any wear on the studs but noticed a good bit on the sockets so I'm guessing that is where the majority of the wear is occuring. On one of the sockets, there was significant wear in one point (didn't take a picture of it). If you held the treads of the tie rod in your left hand, the wear would be at about 4 o'clock on the tie rod end socket. I'd guess there was about 1/16 in of wear at that one point with no wear being visible any where else. If the Luke's Link install I did, I'd guess there is probably enough adjustment available to make up for more than another 1/8 in. By then I think the socket would have to be replaced. I have no idea how many miles the existing tie rod ends will last now since I don't know the socket wear rate but suspect it will be at least another 100K.

 

[DBazley]

Ok thanks for the input on this, fellows.



Now that I review in my mind & using the "lukes link rebuild" pictures posted on the other thread at the 'Ramcharger' page, what you say makes sense, about the wear patterns on the ball/stud. Lukes' is in effect making up for any resonable amount of wear by it's Nylon plastic seat & washers, which then will re-tighten the joint to 'new' spec, while also allowing greasability and further tightening as future wear occurs - something you cannot ever do to a 'stock' joint.



NPS, the only cost comparison I did was that one member advised to switch the layout of our drag links from the stock 'inverted y' to the heavier duty and more effective 'T' set up - which I hear was standard on some years trucks, so he gave prices for that layout with new Moog parts. I think it was about $ 340 or so, which the Lukes method is a bit cheaper, but maybe more work.



Plus, I don't trust my ability to configure the new layout properly. The Luke's rebuild seems (maybe I'm wrong here) more straightforward - more 'goof proof'.



While the "T" steering link layout is likely better, I really don't see any problems with my current 'inverted y' layout in terms of performance.



I'd have to be more convinced than I am now that there's a substantive improvement in performance by switching to the "T" layout.



I'm open to hearing more, if any can comment on that. It'll be next month 'fore I can find the time to get this done in any case.



Thanks for the help !



David B.







I have looked at the Luke's link on my track bar and wondered, 'when (or if) will it need to be tightened or re-greased ?' (It's been on a year and maybe 10 k miles. )