2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Balancing problems with Toyo M55's?

[Dartman]

Done some reading on other's having issues with thier truck hopping. I am thinking of getting a set of Centermatics or balancing beads. My '99 has 39K + miles on it and came stock with the 245's and crome steel rims. I wanted a bit larger tire for looks (just to fill the wheel wells a bit) and an A/T tire. So I installed a set of '00 - '02 stock aluminium rims with Toyo M55 285/75/16's. Now I have enough frontend hop to shake me up a bit @ 42 mph. It starts at about 38 mph with just a slight constant hop. Gets violent at 42 mph. Then can feel the "slight constant hop" after 42 mph 'till about 53 mph. I did have the rims check for being true before the new tires were mounted.



- The OEM set up drove fine w/80 psi in front and rear (no hop)

- M55's had hop most promenant @ 42 mph after M55 and rim installation. I didn't go back to them because I live in Vegas and had the M55's mounted in Kingman, AZ. They put 50 psi in all four.

- Put 65 psi in front and 80 psi/rear. Less hop, but still very promenant at the same speeds.

- Had them re-balanced at Discount Tire. Found that the inside clip-on weights were hitting the tierod ends @ close to full lock.

- Went to a different place to get front end aligned and had them rebalance the front only. Realignment was for front pulling slightly to the right. Front end pulling stopped but still had the hopping @ 42 mph. Added air going from 65 psi to 80 psi in the front. Had less bounce but this I feel is due to more pressure gave me a harder tire, so less bounce. Tire wasn't as 'spongey'.

- Went back to same place to have them rebalance the rears. No effect either way on the hopping.

- Found out later they had used the clip-on weights on the inside of the fronts. Had told them about the weights hitting the tierod ends and they were suppose to use strip weights only.

- Went back to the same place to have them rebalance the fronts again using strip weights instead of clip-ons. I talked to the tech and he suggested I find a place that does Road Force balancing.

- Went back to Discount Tire yeasterday and they road force balanced the fronts. The tech told me the tolerance is 50lbs. After match-mounting the tire to the rim, the left was still at 63 lbs (was @ 85 lbs) and the right was worse at 87 lbs (was @ 138 lbs). Still had the front end hop @ 42 mph. He said the left tire was pretty strait as far as runout but the right was pretty bad. I asked him about this being a manufacture defect from Toyo. He said if he sold me these tires, he would get a replacement for the f/r.



- Has anyone out there had tires replaced because of balancing problems?

- Do you think Centermatics or balancing beads would alleviate the problem?

- Which do you think is a better product between Centermatics or balancing beads?

- Any other ideas? Haven't swapped around tires yet. But got it narrowed down to the front, anyways.





Thank you for any advice in advance, Tony

 

[Oil Burner]

Tony,



I understand your pain. I drove a set of tires that were "bad" from day one. I ran them for about 15K miles and drive about 70 miles a day. I couldn't take it anymore and yanked them in favor of some more civil tires.



I had them balanced several times but had one that was out of round and really aweful in the same mph range as you. I was going crazy driving this truck with that front end hop.



One problem I had is that I was running a tire that wasn't rated for my truck. I had 255/85/16s that looked great, but weren't made for what I was doing with them. Some shops probably wouldn't even have mounted those (many will force you to stick with stock sizes only).



Bottom line is, now I am running wimpy looking (no offense guys!) street tread 265's. They don't look anywhere near as good as my big mudders, but I can't see 'em when I'm in the cab, and that's where I spend most of my time.



Good luck in getting a new tire. Sounds like it was bad to begin with. I learned my lesson and I'm staying with 265's



Thanks,

Jason

 

[AKAMAC]

Try spinning the worst of the two 180 deg on the wheel. Most shops won't charge you extra to do this if you pay for a balance.

 

[Dartman]

Try spinning the worst of the two 180 deg on the wheel. Most shops won't charge you extra to do this if you pay for a balance.

Thank you AKAMAC; I had this done when they forced balanced my tire. They take the heavy side of the tire and position it opposite of the heavy side of the rim. Tony

 

[JGK]

Dartman



With all the hopping you're experiencing, I have to wonder about your front shocks. Have you checked them?



I've been running M55s since last Labor Day and have no complaints. I had them siped for winter/wet traction and cooler running in the summer. I run them at about 40 to 45 lbs in the front and about 35 lbs in the rear, mostly to keep the wear even. It's working fine. I also use balancing beads from Innovative Balancing. 4 oz. each tire. Its working great.



-Jay

 

[Dartman]

Dartman



With all the hopping you're experiencing, I have to wonder about your front shocks. Have you checked them?



-Jay

Jay



I just ordered five 6oz bags yesterday (one for the spare) from Innovative Balancing. Their chart for oversized tires calls for 6oz per tire for my size. But from what I've read on the post pasted below, most guys are running 4 - 5 oz's in their tires. So I think I will start with the smaller amount.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...9&page=1&pp=20&highlight=innovative+balancing



This started only when I put the new tires on the truck. Only have 39. 5K on the OEM shocks, too. Been babying my truck. Not much four wheeling. Been thinking of getting a set of Bilstines (sp) in the future.



Thank you for the info, Jay. Hopefully I am headed in the right direction with the beads. Take care, Tony.

 

[Woodenhead]

I had a similar problem with balancing my old BFG AT's. I only noticed the problem when the tire was in front, when it was on the back it went away.



I went back to the tire shop several times to get the tire rebalanced. They would drive my truck and say they didn't notice a problem yet when they balanced the tires the 6oz plus of weight they put on still wouldn't give them a balance.



Eventually I had another shop (while on the road) rotate and balance my tires they said one tire was way out of round, you could see it on the balancer. When I got back home went back to the original tire shop and they fiddled with it again for awhile then came to the same conclusion with the out of round tire and finally gave me a new one.



Once again, this was with my BFG AT's. The M-55's have been good to me so far but I only have about 2000 miles on them.



Mike

 

[mental floss]

I think the tires are just not round, maybe just too simple of an answer. :-laf

 

[hammersley]

Also I think you'll find that 285's are a bit to wide

for stock wheels! People do it - but I think they are out of spec... ...

 

[Dartman]

I think the tires are just not round, maybe just too simple of an answer. :-laf

I guess having the name "Mental Floss" gives you a different perspective on a subject! That was good. It gave me a good chuckle! Take care, Tony.

 

[JGK]

(Also I think you'll find that 285's are a bit to wide) for stock wheels! People do it - but I think they are out of spec... ...

Aren't the '00-'02 aluminum wheels Dartman is using 8-1/2" wide? If so, that's within spec for the 285 M55s, I believe. My stock wheels were only 8" and are not recommended for that size of tire - you'll wear out the centers - so I had to get aftermarket wheels to move up to 285s. I think Dartman is OK, but admittedly, a wider wheel might be better yet.



Dartman, perhaps your shocks are just marginal. They worked with your previous set up, but with these you've gone beyond their capability.



Any decent tire shop should be able to resolve the out-of-round issue. If they are found to be true, then balancing (beads or otherwise) and running with good shocks should fix you up.



Know anyone with another brand of 285's on a truck you can swap with for a quick run down the road?



-Jay

 

[Dartman]

Jay

The Toyo site recommends 8" to 9" rims for the 285/75/16 M55's. Not sure what is optimal. Both sizes are in bold font indicating both sizes are recommended. The stock '00 - '02 alloys are 8". So I figured there wouldn't be a problem. They are just slightly rounded @ the outer edge. Hardly noticeable. Have to look across the tread to see it. I bought the stock alloys 'cause I didn't want the tires sticking out of the wheel well. Any of the after markets I liked were either cast aluminium, or had a 4. 5" back spacing. Here's the link to M55 specs:



http://www.toyo.com/tires/tire_specsheet.cfm?id=11



I lowered the tire pressure to 50 lbs/F & 55 lbs/R. That helped the ride a lot.

Originally thought the road force balancing made it worse, but had not gotten the truck up to the hopping speed for very long. Had it on the freeway today and was much smoother that the first test run. This was after I dropped the pressure down from 55 lbs/f & 80 lbs/R to the pressure I show above. I might even bring it down a little further, then mark the tire with chaulk to see how it wears.



I still have the hop at 42 MPH, but not as much shimmy below and above this speed as I had befor road force balancing.



I do have beads on the way from Innovative Balancing. I will have to get some new shocks like you suggested, too.



Thanks for the help guys. I would be having such a hard time if it wasn't for the folks dedicated to the members of TDR. Thanks again, Tony.

 

[Silver Bullet Ram]

Wow, I just got a set and I am having the same issue.