Ball joints AGAIN!!!

[rjones]

I had a major episode of death wobble the other day so I crawled under and saw my upper joints were bad already:{. I replaced these 2 years ago from Quad 4x4 and I believe are the "Dana" joint greasable "which I greased every oil change"... ... . I can not afford the Carli or Dyna's " was out of work" So my question is: should I just replace just the uppers, I show no movement from the lowers just , a lot of lateral movement from uppers ..... Oh also I changed the axle joints too at the same time and of course they are shot too... .

 

[jgillott]

In the process of doing them on our '04. 5 as we speak. This will be the third set of ball joints. I have never personally done just the uppers since the lowers are always shot also when I do the job. However, if cost is an issue, and you can confirm that the lowers are truly within spec, I don't see a problem only doing the top.

 

[EDankievitch]

Everyone says that the Carli's are too much money. I've got over 95,000 on mine and they are tight as the day they were new. I should add that my truck is used for moving trailers with alot of backing and low speed steering, not highway never turn the wheel use like most trucks.
Unless you enjoy doing this job over and over save your money and go for the Carli's... ...

 

[rjones]

Everyone says that the Carli's are too much money. I've got over 95,000 on mine and they are tight as the day they were new. I should add that my truck is used for moving trailers with alot of backing and low speed steering, not highway never turn the wheel use like most trucks.

Unless you enjoy doing this job over and over save your money and go for the Carli's... ...

Like I stated above Carli is out of the question, I'm on a budget I only have so much money to spend... ... If I buy Carli I don't buy the Hubs I need also... ... . I cant pull the money out of a certain orifice ya know... ... . and due to the fact that my tires are wearing, I need to fix this issue asap... .

 

[JFought]

you don't really have to do the hubs... ( that price is like $1200 right??)

you can grease the "sealed wheel bearing" through the abs sensor.
Many post on how to do it, thus saving you plenty of money for the Carlie ball joints.

 

[Nyoest]

I've put moog joints in just to have them last about 75k. When my truck needs them I think I'll go back with OEM for $250. They seem to last better than most for a decent price.

 

[TCDiesel]

With big tires 295s or bigger and Midwest roads will destroy BJs in short order, If you have ABS grease at 30/40k threw the the sensor as suggested and you will never replace them again. If you are ruining the uppers much faster then the lowers something is wrong. Uppers should last double of lowers.

 

[TCDiesel]

The reason your axle joints are done is BC the additional movement from Bad BJs or abuse, or china junk joints, Bigger tires just multiply the problem.

 

[steved]

I just had the entire front end redone this past weekend... steering linkage, ball joints, stabilizer, and shocks.



Couple things I have noted...



I had about 100k on the replacement Moog ball joints, and they were still relatively tight... I replaced them because I used a poor quality grease that allowed water into the joint, resulting in rust. I feared they were bad (regardless of what they felt like) and replaced them as preventative measure... not because they actually tested bad. Point being, use a good water resistant grease...



The steering linkages were OE, with 265k on them... to check them, they appeared tight (even laying out on the ground). They only showed up as being bad when watching the steering cycle on the truck... the joints move up/down (vertically) on the ball stud. I actually know these have been loose for several years, they made it through our state inspection each time without question. Point being, make sure you're actually finding the culprit of your DW...



I replaced my components with all Moog (and not even the 2008 upgrade), truck steers like it did when new. If I get another 265k on it, I will be happy...



My lower OE ball joints had measurable play from the day I drove it home... it never really got any worse. I almost wonder if (since unlike their Dana counterpart) because the AAMs lack any ball joint pre-load adjustment (that little four-tang threaded insert used in upper ball joint of the Dana application), that without weight on the joints the lowers wouldn't always tend to feel loose (horizontally)?? The uppers should obviously be tight horizontally at all times... but by design, the uppers allow the lowers to move vertically.

 

[S.Morris]

My sig truck had ball joints replaced with OEM at 140K km(86000miles) and again with Carli at 300K km (186000miles). Up to about 265K Km(165000miles) this truck had NEVER pulled anything and was only lightly loaded. This is when I bought it with only 3200hrs at this mileage.



The axle joints were changed the first time with OEM and at second time with 464's. The wheel brgs were also changed at 265K km and were both shot.



I replaced BJ with Carli and grease my brgs now every 50K km and grease ujoints at each service... ..... will see how it goes.



I do not think the OEM ball joints are anything special except for the price (not). I think the nongreaseable axle joints will last longer than greasable IF you don't grease them.



The rest of the steering components are original and play free.

 

[rjones]

I upgraded the steering components last year. the ball joint Lil over 2yrs ago. I did grease the hubs at 80k when I first heard about it, Ive been running 315 on hummer wheel which will be change when I change the tires when I can afford them to 295/70, also I'm on the third set of axle joints, this time its "precision grease-able" screw the solid joints I don't sled pull!!!!... I ordered the grease-able Dana Extreme ball joints today.



The hubs are Timken @ $ 181. 00 ea

The ball joints are $75. 00 ea

464 Joints $37. 00 ea

shocks all around $155. 00 Monroe reflex

BTW shocks have 101k on them.....



Believe me if I didn't lose my job it would be Carli, Bilstein etc.....

 

[steved]

I just pulled Monroe ReFlex off my truck this weekend... I would need to look at the mileage, but they were beyond toast. Guessing they have around 100k on them?



I replaced with Monroe Gas-Magnums... I don't plan to keep the truck that long.

 

[brods]

The following quote was from a live chat with Dodge.

Guest - question on Ram front axles - 2500/3500 front axles had a number of upgrades in 2007, 2010, and 2012 model years; focusing on a number of specific improvements such as knuckles, ball joints, and seals. The Ram team has also increased the durability test length by 50% to make sure the improvements work. Again, the goal is to be best-in-class durability for these systems.

I had read that they increased the size of the wheel u-joints, but have not heard of any other changes. Does anyone know what exactly the changes the engineer was talking about and if any (such as ball joints) are retrofitable to the older axles? It would be nice to have a factory upgrade at a reasonable price.

 

[rjones]

I have a quick question when will they get rid of AAM axles? problem solved..... I never had this much trouble with my past Dana axle trucks

 

[Prairie Dog]

I have a quick question when will they get rid of AAM axles? problem solved..... I never had this much trouble with my past Dana axle trucks

I had the same problem with the Dana's on my old trk. In fact, they wore out before the ones on my present truck which has 78K on it.

 

[Jeepr]

Yup, same problems with Dana axles in the Jeeps, so it's not just AAM. And yeah, the Carli and Dyna ones save money in the long run as they can be rebuilt in place and cheaply... but I understand you can't do that right now. Take a look at XRF, not much more than Moog (crap).

 

[WalterJ]

I had a major episode of death wobble the other day so I crawled under and saw my upper joints were bad already:{. I replaced these 2 years ago from Quad 4x4 and I believe are the "Dana" joint greasable "which I greased every oil change"... ... . I can not afford the Carli or Dyna's " was out of work" So my question is: should I just replace just the uppers, I show no movement from the lowers just , a lot of lateral movement from uppers ..... Oh also I changed the axle joints too at the same time and of course they are shot too... .

RJones:

I got 140K on my OEM lower BJ's, then only 40K on the OEM replacements, which need replacing now. We can only figure there are too many variables to consider e. g. where manuf. , what materials, what heat treating, what assy. process, what metalurgy????? It's not like the replacement BJ's were on the same shelf as the originals, no way, 4+ years of who knows what changes took place.



I've read on blogs that the ole' reliable Moog BJ's are no good these days. Sorry for your dilemma. Hang in there.

 

[rjones]

Yea h I hear ya WalterJ ... . I use to be a Moog dealer and would only get 2 or 3 warranties a year back in the day... ... I still like Moog but not for our ball joint app,s At any rate I'm going with some Dana made joints ... I ordered on Monday I hope they make it for the weekend..... Actually the hard part for me is finding the right BJ press adapters I have three OTC master kit and not one will fit the joint I hate pressing on the ends of the joints and not the ring... . At least I thing thats were your suppose to press.....

 

[pwerwagn]

I put mcquay norris extremes in my truck about a year or so ago. They seemed to be of great quality. I paid 299$ shipped and they are greaseable. You can get the non-extremes (supposedly the extremes are chromoly) for like 250 greaseable, and non greaseable for like 200-ish.

Ive probably only put 15-20K on them, but most of that is towing heavy and a lot of off road abuse with 37" tires and heavy beadlocked wheels. So far no complaints, and they are lifetime warranty.

Question, when you say the uppers "move", do you mean up and down along their axis or side to side (tire moves left to right)? Up and down play is normal in the uppers, and up and down play can only be seen if the lowers are worn usually. Side to side play... well... yeah... uppers are shot.

 

[rjones]

The upper have at least 3/16 of an inch side play pwerwagn... . Well her is the story I m waiting for the joints to show and getting a lil worried Im in Mi and so is the company I ordered from so I should get them in 2 days Guess again I called them today and looks like they closed the doors and left the website up Nice huh... . the company so no one else runs into this is called The Tire Club located in Crystal Mi. Beware, Anyways I got them from Napa 260-1580 and 260-1579 lifetime warranty ... which are the same joints Quad4x4 is selling... . and are grease able