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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Banjo's and Lessons Learned

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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) One piece dipstick

2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Fuel Tank

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Firstly as a new TDR member, I'd like to say hello to everyone and let you know I'm impressed with all the terrific information available here about our trucks. I've just gone through the installation of Westach EGT/Boost and Fuel Pressure gauges on my new truck and benefited from a lot of the information posted here.



Concerning my Banjo Blues, I mounted Ray's Banjo at the VP and remote mounted the sender on the firewall. A couple of experiences I had that may help my fellow members:



1) I ordered two pre-tapped Banjo's (one as a spare). Neither bolt was correctly tapped for NPT. It seems Geno's is shipping bolts that have no taper; i. e. you'll have to re-tap them for NPT threads.



2) If you have to re-tap your bolts, make sure you have a good 'wide' bottom out tap. I found out not all taps are created equal. My rule of thumb is you need to tap out the hole so that you can hand thread your fitting as deep as the width of the fitting.



3) I've found the Cummins gaskets to be incompatible with Ray's Banjo. Take a look at the shaft to shoulder surface on Ray's Banjo. It's a radial curve. This curve spread and split the aluminum support ring on the Cummins gaskets every time I tried; no I didn't exceed the 18 foot pound torque rating. Examining the factory schrader I took off, the shaft to shoulder is very square; no curves and it doesn't spread or crack the Cummins gaskets. IMHO, this is a significant FLAW in bolt/gasket combination that Geno's is selling :mad:. If you used this combination in your truck, I'd recommend swiping the Banjo/gasket area with your finger and running it past you nose. If you smell diesel I'd bet you have a cracked gasket, if you smell something else I'd recommend you wash your hands :rolleyes:.



4) Pep Boy's has a washer that mates up to Ray's Banjo bolt without cracking. It's a 1/2" Metal reinforced Rubber drain plug replacement gasket. It's a perfect fit. Oil-Tite makes the gasket and the SKU# is 3749565274. Much stronger that the Cummins washer and it stands up to the radial shaft to shoulder curve on the Ray's Banjo bolt. NO diesel leaks !!!!



5) I tried both the grease gun hose and the Schrader to R-13 service line options for the remote pressure sender installation but wasn't pleased with all the gender benders required. For me, I went simple: Brass 1/8" male NPT to 1/4" fuel line fitting at the Banjo end and the same with a 1/8" NPT female coupler at the Sender end. Fuel hose routed between the two and high pressure Fuel Injection (FI) hose clamps at both ends (solid band clamps). Simple, brass connections, no pfunny hoses, looks stock, and NO LEAKS!



6) If you're wondering, I used 3' of 1/4" fuel line to get from the VP back to the Sender mounted on the firewall. The Gauge reading is absolutely rock solid.



I hope this info is useful and saves some other TDR members some time and hassle :).
 
I am about to do a similar install. My question is where exactly are you taking the fuel pressure reading at?? Is it possible to just unscrew the schrader valve as a unit and screw the grease gun hose into that port?? Or are you using a tapped banjo fitting somewhere??
 
I took the factory Schrader off of the VP. Geno's sells a replacement Banjo Bolt that will screw right in to the hole where the Schrader was. This position is where the Lift Pump delivers fuel to the VP. Input fuel pressure readings here represent the end pressure that the Lift pump is delivering to the VP.



The replacement Banjo is drilled in in the top of the head for an 1/8" NPT tap. I ordered the bolts 'pre-tapped' however they weren't tapped correctly (many are not as I know understand) and I had to re-tap them anyway. Any hose fitted with a male 1/8" NPT will then thread directly into the head of Geno's Banjo bolt (grease gun hoses have this type of fitting). Be sure your hoses are rated for diesel fuel. I'm sure the grease gun hose works well for some, however I was unable to find a good one with good brass fittings; to me, brass fittings are the only way to go for tight seals.



Best of luck on your project.
 
Excellent Post...

Boomtown – First I’d like to say welcome to the TDR. You have obviously been lurking for awhile. Second I’d like to say Great Post!!! Keep it up. Informational posts like that is what this site is all about.



As far as Ray’s banjo bolts are concerned, I’m wondering if something has changed between the first batch that he personally sent out and the ones he is now supplying through Geno’s. I really don’t know, but I didn’t have any problems with the first batch and used all new DC gaskets. Also the 1/8 NPT worked for me. I don’t recall anyone else having problems with the first batch of bolts. Anyone know if there are any differences? Did Ray change the set-up or plating?
 
Geno's Banjo's

I had to tap my Geno's banjo also, it was not tapered at all and a 1/8 NPT plug would not even screw into it. So far the gaskets are not leaking but I will watch for this. This seems to be popping up alot lately about the Geno's Banjo's maybe there is a real problem here. I purchased mine about 7 months ago just got around to installing them, to many others things going on. So not sure if it is certain batches or what. :cool: :D
 
banjos

I had to re-tap the "tapped" banjos from Geno's too. I did however use the Cummins gaskets and have not had a problem (yet). I would tend to assum that if they did not crack at the time of installation that they would be fine. I however will remember the other gasket/washers for any future install/mods.



For Cummins Cowboy, I was hoping too that the Schrader would just unscrew from the stock banjo but it is all one unit. You could remove the valve core but would have to fine a fitting to replace it which might be hard to do, and I'm all about easy.





Welcome and great post Boomtown.



J-
 
Please stop wasting time and money on banjo bolts

:-{}

If you are dead set on the fact that opening the holes on the bolt

will relieve restrictions "DRILL THE STOCK BOLTS "(3/16):D



But truely the holes in the banjo bolts are small part of the problem



FUEL LINES AND CONNECTIONS:p



Stock fuel lines from tank to L pump to filter to INJ pump.



After going through a few days of hair pulling I have come to the conclusion that the fuel transfer lines aren't engineered correctly.



A fuel hose, line is limited by its smallest restriction.



The fuel system consists of a multiple of different constrictions. The smallest being between the lift,pusher pump and the fuel filter. Pull it off and check out the hole in the banjo fitting(not bolt) and compare it to the stock banjo bolt hole diameter. :{

Now pull all that junk off your "pride and joy" and replace it with #6 AN fittings and hose from tank to INJ pump:cool:
 
ddawg—where have any of the posts before yours mentioned anything about interior clearances in the banjo bolts and ways to improve fuel flow? The way I read this thread the concern is attaching fuel pressure gauges and possible sealing problems with aftermarket banjo bolts.
 
Yes you are correct, but also the kits for replacing banjo bolts offer larger diameter holes that some members think improve flow.



I guess their are two applications for the kits , I am just trying to stop anyone from wasting their time trying to improve a improper system.



If you want to pick up a reading for pressure reasons I would just use a braided autometer gauge line straight from the shrader vaulve (removed) with a . 10 cent reducer to connect the gauge.



No time spent finding the right tap to fix someone elses improper fitting .

No time spent cracking banjo washers (common) and tracking down aftermarket washers that leak.

No junk on your truck do it right, DO IT BETTER





;)
 
I'M GLAD I READ YOUR POST. I WAS ABOUT TO INSTALL MY FUEL GAUGE WITH RAYS/GENOS BANJO BOLT AND FOUND IT TOO WAS "MACHINE" TAPPED AND NOT PIPE TAPPED. I'D SEND IT BACK BUT IT WOULD PROBABLY TAKE ANOTHER 8 WEEKS TO GET IT BACK AND THEN NOT CORRECT EITHER. :mad: :mad: aNYWAY SOMEWHERE I HAVE A BOTTOM TAP. IF I CANT FIND IT I'LL SEND A BILL TO GENOS. :D
 
Originally posted by dieseldawg

Please stop wasting time and money on banjo bolts

:-{}

If you are dead set on the fact that opening the holes on the bolt

will relieve restrictions "DRILL THE STOCK BOLTS "(3/16):D



But truely the holes in the banjo bolts are small part of the problem



FUEL LINES AND CONNECTIONS:p



Stock fuel lines from tank to L pump to filter to INJ pump.



After going through a few days of hair pulling I have come to the conclusion that the fuel transfer lines aren't engineered correctly.



A fuel hose, line is limited by its smallest restriction.



The fuel system consists of a multiple of different constrictions. The smallest being between the lift,pusher pump and the fuel filter. Pull it off and check out the hole in the banjo fitting(not bolt) and compare it to the stock banjo bolt hole diameter. :{

Now pull all that junk off your "pride and joy" and replace it with #6 AN fittings and hose from tank to INJ pump:cool:

Not familiar with "AN" fittings??:confused: Available at hydraulic hose shops?
 
i wish someone would have said earlier about the banjos from genos i ordered mine 2 weeks ago but did not install them yet but checked and the 1\8"npt was not the right size. had i known that i would not have got them would changed to an or something else. i just got them when i did because i want to start upgrading and got the gauges and fittings first then when i got more money could go for box or injectors.
 
If you don't want to hassle with the banjo's after you get them try some of Rod's Wildcat High Flow Banjo's from Wildcat Diesel. They work right out of the box.
 
ROCKCRUSHER,



AN (anodized fittings) are available at high performance shops,you probably will not find them at napa or similar stores.



The brand names I used are RUSSELL (an edelbrock company) and EARLS.



You will need 13 feet of hose (#6) and these fittings.



EARLS P#991944 12mm/1. 50 thread 5ea.



RUSSELL P#7000/670000 in line gauge connection 1ea.

RUSSELL P#1002/610020 straight hose end 1ea.

RUSSELL P#1316/613160 full flow swivel 90 4ea.

RUSSELL P#4016/640160 swivel coupler 90 1ea.



Make sure and purchase a assembly kit also RUSSELL P#671570.



Cost around 300 and takes 3 hrs from tank to inj pump
 
300 Bucks..... Good lord, I could have all the hoses in stainless braided teflon hose cut and crimped for under 100 bucks. And I wouldn't have to fight the connectors. Save time and grief by taking the measurement and then going to a local hydraulic shop. Oo.
 
AN fittings= Army/Navy... . And they are anodized!



Your local speed shop or Summitt Racing Equipment will be able to help.

Braided fuel line is the way to go.
 
This may be a silly question, but those of you who run braided line from the tank forward..... what do you do with the OEM metal fuel line??? Do you cap it off, remove it from the truck, or just leave it and let road grime accumulate inside it???
 
A/N 101

bfreel is right: A/N stands for Army/Navy. The A/N size is in 16ths of an inch, thus a -8 AN is a half inch. I can't imagine for the life of me why the AN/ braided hose combination isn't more popular. The fittings and hose are superior in every way. Just takes a little more work and $$. When I was enlisted USAF and worked on fuel systems on planes, that's all there was. The USAF has used it for over 70 years, and it's proven and tested to be reliable.



DAWG, would the parts you listed work on my 02 QC CTD? I haven't really eyeballed the stock setup much, so I am not sure what is under there. If it is all NPT, it should be easy to run the AN fittings with adapters.



Better yet, why not bend some hard line and double flare it??



OOOOOOOO NOW THERE'S A THOUGHT!! HARDLINE ALL THE WAY!!!
 
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