banks brake, anybody got one?

[rob10858]

adding hp with an exhaust brake is new to me. i understand the logic of their system, but 15 to 30 hp gain seems like a pretty strong statement. we like our pacbrakes and moparjacobs, but theres always gonna be something new and better, right?

 

[MikeR]

I call BS on the Banks brake flow claims. When my truck was set at 300hp (which is almost the same HP level as a Banks Powerpak), I've had it on the dyno before and after my Jacobs brake was installed. My Jacobs made no difference in horsepower output before or after the brake install. Also my cruising and maximum EGT's have not changed before and after the brake install. All my tests had the same intake and exhaust setup.



-Mike

 

[JohnE]

Thanks Mike

Good to hear someone has the baseline data to contradict the marketing hype or fine print disclaimers.



packman;

I'm sure the extra hp is available once you add the proper <font size=1>(Banks&reg</font> accessories. Adding a 4" exhaust is probably good for something with or without the Banks brake?



John

 

[Bob Wagner]

Thanks -Mike

maybe you helped same a few members a few hundred dollars

 

[nps]

Banks uses the JC Whitney theory:



My dad used to tell me that if you installed every option out of the JCW catalog that promised 5%, 10% 20% better MPG, then you'd have to stop every 10 miles to drain the gas tank.



Go figure.

 

[Wcr25]

Originally posted by nps

Banks uses the JC Whitney theory:



My dad used to tell me that if you installed every option out of the JCW catalog that promised 5%, 10% 20% better MPG, then you'd have to stop every 10 miles to drain the gas tank.



Go figure.

Or if you add up all the horsepower increases claimed by all the go-fast goodies you could bolt on, You'd be making 650 horsepower out of your wife's Honda Civic. But the harmonica sounds incredible!!



Todd

 

[JohnE]

I went to the <a href=http://www.bankspower.com/banksbrake. cfm target=_blank>Banks&reg;</a> web site and the Cummins E-brake is not available, yet. Apparently, they started with the Ford applications <b>first</b> as you can get one for a 99+ Power Stroke today.



I also see a 4" downpipe included in the infamous Banks <em>kit</em>. Is the 15-30 hp gain due to adding a 4" downpipe to a pre '99 Ford?



I copied this from the Banks website:

<font size=1><blockquote>We set out to streamline every element of traditional exhaust brakes. " says company president Gale Banks, "The engineers thought through every detail, like normalizing post-turbine airflow before it reaches the butterfly valve, directing wastegate air inline with the flow, and including a <b>large-diameter turbine outlet pipe</b>. </blockquote></font>



Always read the fine print with any Vendor.



-John

 

[NJohnson]

The "fine print" in that statement doesn't at all suggest that the power gain is delivered solely because of a larger diameter turbine outlet pipe. It looks like the size and design on the brake casting, as well as the downstream placement of the butterfly valve play major roles in improving flow in the open position. Since the brake for the Ford relieves some backpressure in the open position, it's reasonable to assume that you would gain some efficiency and power.

 

[nps]

Navin,



Looks like you only post on Banks threads?



I agree with you that the Banks brake MAY add SOME power and efficiency gain (kinda like a probably - maybe huh).



If you want to believe these claims of 15-30 horsepower go ahead. But don't damage your credibility or insult my intelligence by expecting me to do the same.



I'm sure Banks has some Clinton-esque defense for the numbers claimed.

 

[rob10858]

thats kinda what i thought. the speedbrake for autos might also be a disaster. everything that ive read says that , as for now, the ex brake, torque lock, auto trans is still a risky proposition. even with proper gauges, driving practices, etc. an auto with a load has an inherent weakness going up and down hard grades. that goes for all of our trucks, dc , ford, and chevy. sure they are used in all types of truck applications, but i like to be able to determine when to shift, and not rely on a computer to do it for me.

 

[JohnE]

If the exhaust <em>swirl</em> was significant, a stator is required to redirect the flow back to linear with the exhaust pipe and to the e-brake butterfly valve. A few inches of casting is not a stator. The wastegate port may be something especially if you compare stock to a bombed (even a Banked) system.



I've witnessed the results of many performance options on a dyno and based on those observations, I will not take it to the <em>Bank</em>.



-John

 

[NJohnson]

NPS... I tend to post on the Banks threads because frankly they're the most interesting threads I've seen in my short time as a TDR member. They certainly seem to envoke the most enthusiasm one way or the other from the people in here. All I've been saying is that my experience with Banks has been very good. Anyway, back on the brake subject. . I sincerely think that the design of the Banks Brake may offer better flow in the "open" position based on what I've seen so far. Everyone knows that better air flow results in greater efficiency. Generally speaking, greater efficiency results in improved power. The priciples behind what they're advertising are not hard to understand. I notice most of the members have changed their exhaust systems over to larger tubing with higher flowing mufflers... did that do any of you any good? I imagine it must have because I never see any of the members knocking that approach. Better exhaust = better flow = less restriction = more power. If the design of their brake casting relieves unwanted backpressure in the open position, then why shouldn't it be beneficial in the area of power just as better flowing exhaust is? I know that ultimately it's the fuel that makes the power but air flow is also an important piece of the puzzle. And besides... 15 to 30 horsepower would be a modest gain. They certainly aren't saying that power is going to be night and day striclty by virtue of a new approach to exhaust braking. Now, discuss amongst yourselves.



Naiven

 

[Ron Bissett]

Banks inproved air flow ?

Banks can clame ,and who will spend the time or money to counter the claim of 15 to 30 hp , a indication on a guage is all that is needed to make a claim , proof of what caused that increase ,more fuel more air less restriction less heat more heat ,damp air better filter (air ) ect . who set the test up , who tested and against what standard . Will some one spend the money to counter the claim. Rember the shell oil claim for Platformate . Shell forgot to say all major oil co use Platformate in the making of gas. Some times one co will not dispute a claim as they will be comming up with a wopper and we know it takes two hands to handle a wopper . what is that about a grain of salt? Ron in Louisville KY

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I've got a BD brake on my truck and have plenty of fuel. I'll be glad to do two dyno runs, one with the BD brake on it, and then swap it out and try the banks brake. Anyone want to donate the dyno time and the Banks brake?

 

[KatDiesel]

I'm curious if they will be blindly sold to the auto owners?

 

[SlyBones]

Of couse they will sell to us Auto owners, we want that 30hp increase too.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Seems to me that most exhaust systems are claiming 15-30hp improvements and I don't hear anyone questioning those advertisements.....



Brian

 

[nps]

Brian,



Any mod may provide some benefit. But with the only change before/after being the installation of an EB - no matter how good the design - do you think you will get even 1 HP?

 

[WOWZY]

I don't care what they advertise. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that anything (no matter how small the Butterfly and stem is) inside the exhaust will interrupt the smooth flow and have negative effects not positive ones.



Nice try Gale, we've been here to long to fall for that one!

 

[NVR FNSH]

nps - any improvement depends on what's in the 'kit'. Is the down pipe included? Concievably(sp?), the Banks Brake w/down pipe could flow better than the stock down pipe. My answer is a question - 'show me the numbers'.....



WOWZY - sometimes highest flow isn't the ultimate answer. The precoolers on the 777 have flow mixers to help with mixing (obvisouly) because the effectiveness of the heat exchanger is a higher priority than pressure drop... ...



The trucks are integrated systems and all the systems must be designed together in order to achieve the optimum results.



Brian