BANKS high ram vs. stock?

[TnLRacing]

Well will see this Saturday... I am going to try and make it to the Dyno with Jarhead...

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by Forrest Nearing

how would you recomend testing if not on a chassis dyno?

How about on a chassis dyno that actually lets you hold a fixed load/rpm instead of one that cannot do a steady state condition? For the life of me the proper names escape me right now.....



Brian

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by TnLRacing

Well will see this Saturday... I am going to try and make it to the Dyno with Jarhead...

Multiple runs for each configuration?



Brian

 

[TnLRacing]

Im sure we will make at least 3 runs with each config..... Im also Gonna dyno my 01, with a EZ and dd2's... maybe if t here is time we can try the High Ram on my truck

 

[Forrest Nearing]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

How about on a chassis dyno that actually lets you hold a fixed load/rpm instead of one that cannot do a steady state condition? For the life of me the proper names escape me right now.....



Brian

I suppose that would be ideal, but the dynos everyone are using are still good at showing before/after performance differences.



same dyno, same day, same atmospheric conditions works for me... it may not show exactly what is happening out there on the street.



if the high ram was the greatest thing since sliced bread, wouldn't it have shown some sort of an improvement on the dyno?



Forrest

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by Forrest Nearing

if the high ram was the greatest thing since sliced bread, wouldn't it have shown some sort of an improvement on the dyno?



Forrest

Forrest,

I never said the High Ram was the greatest thing since sliced bread. In fact, I said I wouldn't buy it because there isn't much to be gained with it in my opinion. The intake and exhaust manifolds are not going to give large performance increases on a boosted engine. Is there room for improvement over the stock intake and exhaust manifolds on the 5. 9? Absolutely, but your going after the high hanging fruit so to speak.



What I do have an issue with is the assumption that a single data point means something is good or bad. It's bad practice to make decisions based on a sample size of one. I'm interested to see how the data falls out from this weekends testing.



On a side note: Has anybody done any before and after testing of Bank's Twin Ram for the 12V engine?



Brian

 

[Forrest Nearing]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

Forrest,

I never said the High Ram was the greatest thing since sliced bread. In fact, I said I wouldn't buy it because there isn't much to be gained with it in my opinion.

ahh, I figured by the way you were defending Banks' engineers, that... well... you know.



Forrest

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

On a side note: Has anybody done any before and after testing of Bank's Twin Ram for the 12V engine?

Yes. From the post I read that was also shown to yield no noticable increase in HP.

 

[NPloysa]

But it looks cool!!!!

 

[Dkevdog]

Originally posted by Cooker

Yes. From the post I read that was also shown to yield no noticable increase in HP.

Maybe no HP, but on my 96 it lowered my EGT by 100*. I was told it did more for flowing air evenly than HP.



Kev

 

[BPonci]

I tried the twin scam and found it did lower the egt by 100 degrees. But then it was on a 96 egr engine. . If your going to change intakes on a 12v buy a non egr intake. [same temp drop]

 

[NVR FNSH]

IIRC Bank's testing showed much better cyl-cyl EGTs as measured with thermocouples on each exhaust port compared to the stock intake manifold. I don't know if it was an EGR manifold or not.



Brian

 

[Cooker]

But it looks cool!!!!

I don't know if that is a good reason to drop $550. Wait, I forgot about my wheels



It also makes it more of a PIA to work on that side of the enigne from what I hear.



It may have an EGT reduction but no net HP gain from what I understand.



For less than that I can get an EGT reduction and HP with a water/meth kit

 

[RDietze]

Originally posted by Cooker

I don't know if that is a good reason to drop $550.

$309 at dodge-pickup.com --- they just raised the price from upper 200 hundreds. i'm sure it is a simple case of supply and demand



http://shop.ivalueinternet.com/dodge-pickup/index.cfm/action/shop_by_subcat/category_id/55.htm



btw... . where is that test data we were going to get on this thing?

i would pay $1. 50 for one

 

[Cooker]

In my post I was referencing the Twin Ram for the 12v which is a crazy $613 on the link you posted.

 

[RDietze]

gotcha!



why the price hike ($309 at dodge-pickup.com --- they just raised the price from upper 200 hundreds?)



who the ____ wants one of these things anyway?

 

[PeterT]

It seems a little technical information about the High-Ram is in order. First of all, I should point out that we have never advertised or suggested that the High-Ram will increase horsepower by itself. It seems that the intent of the dyno run in question was to see an increase in horsepower. Although we do sell the High-Ram as a stand-alone item for those who consider themselves do-it-yourselfers, it is primarily intended to have an increased fuel calibration to go with it to take full advantage of the airflow improvement. It doesn’t really surprise me that you are seeing no power increase.



Now, about how to evaluate airflow improvement. As you are all aware, the Twin-Ram was designed to offer better airflow distribution to all six cylinders of the engine, but the configuration of the injector lines on the 24-valve did not allow a dual inlet configuration. But the stock inlet piece has a very sharp 90 degree bend in it that acts as a restriction. So we developed the High Ram to improve the entry path. The best way to evaluate the airflow improvement of a device like this is to measure pressure drop across it. For instance, when the engine is running at a given RPM with 25. 0 PSI boost on the inlet side, we measured 22. 5 PSI in the intake manifold, a pressure loss of 2. 5 PSI. At the same RPM with 25. 0 PSI boost going into the High-Ram, boost in the manifold was 24. 5 PSI, a pressure drop of only . 5 PSI. That means that while the engine/turbo is working to produce a certain amount of boost, more of the air density that is generated actually gets to the cylinders. That means that more fuel can be added to make more power.



Is the High-Ram the best possible design? No. If any of you have seen the intake configuration that we used on the Sidewinder project, you would know what is probably the most ideal intake configuration. We machined the entire intake trough off the side of the head and built a side draft manifold. This is obviously an involved situation that requires removal of the cylinder head and a lot of machining. The configuration that is in the Sidewinder is set up for the common rail engine.

 

[Hohn]

And there we have it.....

 

[nickleinonen]

If any of you have seen the intake configuration that we used on the Sidewinder project, you would know what is probably the most ideal intake configuration. We machined the entire intake trough off the side of the head and built a side draft manifold. This is obviously an involved situation that requires removal of the cylinder head and a lot of machining. The configuration that is in the Sidewinder is set up for the common rail engine

i must say that intake manifold on the sidewinder does look way cool eh... but the head removal part makes it something that i won't be interested in some while [i don't think it is a production piece yet right?]

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by TnLRacing

Well will see this Saturday... I am going to try and make it to the Dyno with Jarhead...

Did you dyno?