Banks says that Turbo Cool Down is a myth!

[john3976]

Give me a break. Anyone notice #9?







Okay, that's half true. The other half is that on a MASS basis (aka gravimetric), diesel has LESS energy content than gasoline. As far as I'm concerned, then, diesel has less energy content than gasoline; its lower heating value is lower than gasoline's.



What is the coking temperature for a modern conventional oil? And what does the bearing type have to do with oil coking?



-Ryan

Bearing type may have nothing to do with coking of the oil when hot, but it is a fact that todays bearings are far better then what was in Turbos 30 years ago.



Todays oils are far better then they were 30 years as well, in the case of Royal Purple, it is designed to provide protection in high heat areas and to cling to metal surfaces, so even at shut down you would still have Royal Purple working for you in the case of the turbo spinning down, but I bet there are hundreds of thousands of owners who shut down with no cool off and their turbos have worked just fine.



You also get API rating with Royal Purple as well so if something should come up with your turbo and it is oil/bearing related, DCX can't refuse you warranty work, that is something Amsoil cannot say.



I think some of the problem is because the information came from Banks and for some reason there is a lot of hate toward Banks in hear.



I find it amusing that Banks even allows TDR into its shops for articles the way they get trashed in the TDR forums, for every one person who has a problem a problem with a Banks product I bet there are 20 others who have no problems.

 

[JoshPeters]

JMHO..... Anyone that publicly states something that goes against every turbo company I have read about deserves the bashing. Problems or no problems... . It's not right. People look up to that company and take that as the word of God. "Bank says..... " That's why they tend to get bashed around here.



Seriously... every company gets bashed on the TDR at some point and time! Banks is probably the most high profile company that we deal with... . so they get the worst of it.



Josh

 

[SKargo]

Bearing type may have nothing to do with coking of the oil when hot, but it is a fact that todays bearings are far better then what was in Turbos 30 years ago.



Todays oils are far better then they were 30 years as well, in the case of Royal Purple, it is designed to provide protection in high heat areas and to cling to metal surfaces, so even at shut down you would still have Royal Purple working for you in the case of the turbo spinning down, but I bet there are hundreds of thousands of owners who shut down with no cool off and their turbos have worked just fine.



You also get API rating with Royal Purple as well so if something should come up with your turbo and it is oil/bearing related, DCX can't refuse you warranty work, that is something Amsoil cannot say.



I think some of the problem is because the information came from Banks and for some reason there is a lot of hate toward Banks in hear.



I find it amusing that Banks even allows TDR into its shops for articles the way they get trashed in the TDR forums, for every one person who has a problem a problem with a Banks product I bet there are 20 others who have no problems.

So who do you work for, Banks or Royal Purple?

 

[fbaurley]

The average person just tooling around town, probbaly doesnt need to let there turbo cool down a pickup, but if you are towing its another story . Take for example a tractor plowing or something that runs at full load all the time. I rarely let my truck cool down more than 20 or 30 seconds, but anytime I operate equipment I make sure it cools down for around 5 minutes if i have just taken a load off of it such as plowing. It all depends on the exhaust gas temp, along with engine temp, etc, but to say you dont need to let it cool down is false information. If any engine is working hard it should be allowed to cool down, before shut off.

 

[klenger]

I'm sure I will catch a lot of flack for this statement, but for the most part, I agree with Banks statement, with the exceptions that fbaurley mentioned above. When driving around town empty, by the time I drive the last few blocks to my office or home at almost idle speeds, the turbo should have cooled down. I drive with such a light foot around town that I don't think my temps get all that high anyway.



Same story for warm up; by the time I drive a few blocks at idle speeds to get to the main roads, the operating temps have already gotten up some, but I still don't hammer on the go pedal.



Now, if I am towing my 5er, cool down is another story.

 

[nickleinonen]

A good high quality synthetic oil such as the Amsoil Series 3000 HDD 5W-30 has a "Flash point" of 237 C. /457 F.

that is good... but delvac 1 is just a little higher up in temp where the flash point is 240°c/464°f



[not oil bashing, just making a comment]

 

[guava]

I tend to agree completely with FBaurley.



Here is a link to a long article regarding 'shock cooling' of aviation engines.



Which is essentially the same thing. Causing an immediate change in engine temp. The article is interesting and you could infer a lot of things from it. In the end, I'd rather err on the safe side and give a hard working engine a few moments to cool down to normal temps before shutting it off.



Specific quote from the TIO-540 manual as published by Textron lycoming. (engine is a Turbo 6cyl aircraft engine putting out about 300-350 HP)



"Cylinder head temperature change rate should not exceed 50 degrees F per minute to avoid rapid shock cooling.



link

 

[john3976]

So who do you work for, Banks or Royal Purple?

I don't work for either one, but hey if they want to send me some checks I am open to cashing them.

 

[SKargo]

I don't work for either one, but hey if they want to send me some checks I am open to cashing them.

I hear you on that. Sorry about the silly question.

 

[amsoilman]

I'm sure I will catch a lot of flack for this statement, but for the most part, I agree with Banks statement, with the exceptions that fbaurley mentioned above. When driving around town empty, by the time I drive the last few blocks to my office or home at almost idle speeds, the turbo should have cooled down. I drive with such a light foot around town that I don't think my temps get all that high anyway.



Same story for warm up; by the time I drive a few blocks at idle speeds to get to the main roads, the operating temps have already gotten up some, but I still don't hammer on the go pedal.



Now, if I am towing my 5er, cool down is another story.

I tend to go along with Klenger. I have driven School buses for the past 12 years that have the B" series engines, as well as the C" series CTD's. My current one is a 2000 24V 5. 9L with over 125,000 on her.



We have various drivers, young, old, men as well as woman who drive these things each and every day, and we have never had a turbo failure! We have had some that lost coolant and was not shut down quick enough that ended up with engine damage, but we have never lost a turbo.



We have over 200 buses in the fleet, and the oil gets changed every 4,500 miles.



With my own truck, I have gauges, so when I am pulling, the engine gets to idle for a short time before shutting down. Usually down to 300 or 350 F even though I use a full synthetic oil.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Rman]

I agree with klenger. My brothers truck has just about 200k on it. Unless towing a heavy load for long distances he never once let the turbo cool down on shutoff. I never have, and know countless diesel owners (ford chevy and dodge) that don't and I've never seen a turbo failure. I think it's all a bunch of hooey, but that's just me. In fact I know a guy that does just about everything "wrong" with his truck, and that dang thing is still ticking. He drives short distances, in winter every day, never lets the turbo cool down. Hasn't changed the oil in forever. whats an air filter? There's a fuel filter in this thing? Grease what zerk fittings? Anti-freeze?, that stuff don't go bad. Man he's truck still runs like a champ. If these trucks were so heavy duty I'm sure turning off the truck while stopping to get groceries on the way home from a hard day at the office is OK.

 

[tractorface]

Must be Banks attempt at wooing the tree hugger crowd. I have a friend with an 89 7. 3l ford. He installed a Banks turbo kit on it and right in the literature it said to watch the EGT gauge( that was part of the kit) and make sure it read 350 or below before shutting the truck down. Guess when you want to sell gauges turbo temps matter. Banks is all wet that is why the company gets bashed. All that BS about not hurting the drivetrain etc. with his "engineered" kits. Blah, blah, blah. Have another friend that had a guy install a "stinger" kit on hiis Ford. Told him how great it would run etc. He can't understand why I spank him at will with my measley 6 banger and light mods. The same banks guy told me I was pushing my motor way too hard and was well passed what Cummins designed it for. Hell I'll bet I'm lucky to see 275 on the Dyno. :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[BradyWilliams]

All I can say is. why is hot shut down, still in all faiure analysis cataloging from all maufacturers. I can post them if needed. They can hot shut down their trucks if they want but i will still wait until pyro temps are below 350 deg.

 

[CATCRACKER]

ask fedex or ups if they have problems and they can answer this question. they run them hard and shut'em down sometimes as they are still rolling.

 

[Texas Diesel]

I think Banks is refering to "new technology" turbos.



"but the new generation of clean turbo-diesel engines for light trucks and motorhomes bears little in common with those of just a few years ago – it’s not your Granddaddy’s diesel anymore!"



The center bearings have a larger oil reserve in the new Dodges (per a Dodge mechanic who learned this at a class on the new trucks). The Duramaxes have a water cooled center bearing.



Obviously if the OEMS are making provision to cool the center turbo bearing there must be a reason.



I think one of the million mile Rams (that used dino oil and OEM filters) mentioned that they always idled the truck before shutting down. It's just possible that these million mile operators may be doing it correctly.

 

[SKargo]

ask fedex or ups if they have problems and they can answer this question. they run them hard and shut'em down sometimes as they are still rolling.

Yeah, and they have failures. It's an accepted part of the life of a delivery truck. Our UPS and Fedex guy leaves their trucks running when they make deliveries to the dealership.

 

[amsoilman]

I think Banks is refering to "new technology" turbos.



"but the new generation of clean turbo-diesel engines for light trucks and motorhomes bears little in common with those of just a few years ago – it’s not your Granddaddy’s diesel anymore!"



The center bearings have a larger oil reserve in the new Dodges (per a Dodge mechanic who learned this at a class on the new trucks). The Duramaxes have a water cooled center bearing.



Obviously if the OEMS are making provision to cool the center turbo bearing there must be a reason.



I think one of the million mile Rams (that used dino oil and OEM filters) mentioned that they always idled the truck before shutting down. It's just possible that these million mile operators may be doing it correctly.

I drive a 89 Dodge Shadow TURBO which now has 150,000 on it. It is never idled before it is shut down, and I have never had ANY Turbo problems at all... ... ... ... ... ... I just use a good high quality Synthetic oil.

I do realize this is NOT a HARD working engine like our CTD trucks are, but just the same it is a turbo. IT is water cooled as well.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Joe G.]

You might find the last post of this thread interesting:



http://dieselram.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001763

 

[Texas Diesel]

... IT is water cooled as well.



Wayne

amsoilman

This makes my point.

 

[amillstream]

I shut mine down warm sometimes if I haven't been pulling it hard. If I am pulling hard, I always let it cool off. I think a couple of guys have hit the nail on the head, when they said most of us don't really have these things hot anyway before we shut them down.

I doubt that 20 percent of cummins pickup owners really have been working there truck hard enough to have coking problems anyway but I'll let mine cool to 350 anyway thank you.