Banks Twin Ram Manifold - WOW

[C Schomer]

956, I was thinking the same thing before it was on. Now I believe its the extra air and burning the extra fuel that's making a little more boost. I never kept notes of boost/egt/mph etc at all conditions so I'm relying on memory. Cruising at 2100 rpm in 5th(towing), I don't remember being able to hit 29lbs. on hills. I know it would at higher rpm but at only 2100 - 28lbs seemed more like it. I've checked mpg on every tank since it was new. I have never gone two tanks with exactly the same driving conditions but I know for certain my mpg is at least 1 mpg better. Between what Banks claims and that old article in the TDR (that backed Banks' claims) - it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. On that 4th gear test hill when I could only hit 1200 with my foot to the floor and I was going 2mph faster - I used to have to back out a little for egt. That's telling me the claim of 23 more hp must have some substance to it. I don't know why a Banks rep would say what he did about the 12 and 24 valve- it doesn't make sense. They CAN'T split the manifold on the 24 valve. It's been a while since I looked at one but I remember there were obsticles(or design problems) that disallow it. I'll be checking towing mpg again, going to Carlsbad in two weeks. Craig

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I found this review on the TwinRam. Craigs and this guys observations are almost the same. Note the Dyno graphs. The twin ram produced an additional 88 ft lbs of torque, and moved the peak torque down the rpm band. Interesting. He does not mention whether he got another torque plate with the Twinram kit. ?



Note:



Powerpack = Stinger Plus kit and a TwinRam









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THE SURPRISING BANKS "TWINRAM" review below

http://rversonline.org/ArtBanks2.html



See the different boost #'s with & without the TwinRam:



http://rversonline.org/BanksStats.html

 

[C Schomer]

Bill, thanks for that post! I don't remember seeing that. I only remembered the 20 or so hp gain. I also know now, I wasn't just imagining more boost. There's one think they don't elaborate on - the Power Pack has a different plate and they don't say how much of the changes in the power curve are due to the manifold and how much of it is due to the plate. I'm thinking, mostly the plate but it takes the manifold to get the air to burn more fuel. Craig

 

[MikeR]

MLee,



That Banks rep you talked to is a real idiot. The twin Ram is made for the 12v and not the 24v. It will not fit on the 24v because the fuel lines to the injectors are in the way. I'm suprised a representative is that much out of tune with his product.



-Mike

 

[JohnE]

<blockquote><font size=1>95w/trainingwheels, oops 6wheels said:

&quot;If the intake is less restrictive it would seem that boost would be utilized better, i. e. higher flow rate. If the flow rate is higher the boost reading THEORETICLY (sp) would show less boost. JMO </font></blockquote>

Turbo machinery performanace is a very strange animal to predict. AT my previous employer, the engineering group redesigned an APU inlet duct for DFM/DFA. They discovered this new inlet duct flowed better and resulted in higher EGT of the APU. Better inlet flow allowed more hp output which increased the turbine temps.



Mike;

I wonder how your over valved Cummins would flow if one <em>could</em> get a twin Ram intake to fit.

Fuel for thought?



-John

 

[Hammer]

400 Magnum answers

Yes the aftermarket plates have a very good throttle response compared to the stock plates,,Just to compare I reinstalled mine to try to remember how underpowered it was when I first bought it(my 98 truck),,To see the power you need not be towing anything at all,,Once a BOMBing mission is started you'll see what i mean,,Power is there once the mods are applied,,My truck with a TST#10 plate makes max power at 2400 rpm and max torque at 1700 rpm,,The low end throttle response is tremendous and will sit you in the seat like any 6 pk stick car you have ever driven or even harder ,depending on how hard the loud pedal is stomped,,As for fuel milage,well I can only sum it up this way to you,as you being a newbie,once the BOMBing mission starts so does the increased pressure on the loud pedal thus yes fuel milage suffers,,Now keep in mind once your new found power kinda get old you'll notice two things,#1-Boredom will set in as it will seem like the old truck as the newfound power newness wears off and #2-You will seek more,cause we all say thats all I need and the POOF,more power parts get ordered and the never ending quest begins,,I'm not sure where or who's near you 400 but,find a close member and drive his truck,you'll see it does not drive like a stocker,trust me thats how the bug got me,,And last but not least welcome since you are a newbie to a great group of fellow diesel enthusiasts that will help you in what you seek and may even lead you down the path to never ending quest for power,,As for CSchomer,you still have not answered the question on what you did to add more boost,cause we all know that by just adding a manifold it WILL NOT add boost,,Yes it will help air flow and thus improve egt's but,it will not add boost,,Correcting the air flow so you can mash the loud pedal harder due to your high egt's tells us that you had significant other problems that you also corrected and the misrepresentation of the manifold adding boost will confuse some of the new folks here,,I was not trying to raise the dander of anyone just trying to get an honest answer some thing that was not done,,One last thing,400 Magnum,,Read Joe D's article on Air+ Fuel= POWER and alot of what you are asking is in there,,Just my . 02 worth... ...

 

[DBR]

Back in my early days of diesel ownership, when I had no knowledge of the TDR and vendors such as TST and BD, I, too, purchased the twin ram upgrade to my original stinger plus set-up on my 97 5 spd. Included with my purchase I received a new fuel plate and twin ram manifold and later discovered that the fuel plate profile was identical to the TST 280 #11 plate. Ironically they are both sitting on the shelf now, along with the twin ram manifold. The only performance increase I observed was from the fuel plate. The manifold's only improvement was appearance. I purchased this system very early in its release, after relying on the "technical" advice of the salesperson from Banks. I'm not disputing the results Banks advertises, it just didn't impress me as much as I thought it should for the price. I later found the TDR and BD (or should I say Piers) and for far less investment I was able to surpass the performance gains of any of the Banks kits. I would have to agree with others that you must have had a manifold leak that was corrected with the install thus allowing you to regain lost boost. Just my personal observations.

 

[sewman]

I had the same problem as DBR when I was a newbie B4 TDR & etc I read a test on a Bamks equipped Dodge & was impressed enough to layout some big$$$ I still have the Twin Ram on because I'm to lazy to change it. I recently changed my headgasket previously max boost was 34,now I ported the head

& put on a marine gasket,ATS exhaust manifold that was matched to the gasket. Now I've read on this board that porting lowers boost,well now I peg my 40lb (Banks) guage another damn Banks part to replace. But what happened here??40lbs

feels good though I must of plugged a leak by accident.

Bob

 

[BPINE]

I as well fell into the same catagory as DBR and have went the same road in the end. I have changed many many things along the way just to see for my self and not many things change crusing EGT and boost other than fuel.

 

[Steve Campbell]

Hammer, just a thought. At first blush, the addition of a more efficient means of getting the air charge into the cylinders should lower the boost rather than increasing it. However, the addition of more air in should also give one more air out which spins the exhaust side (ankle bone connected to the leg bone) which spins the compressor side and (poof) more boost pressure. JMHO

 

[400Magnum]

Other benefits of the Twin Ram?

Craig & Hammer, thanks for the replies, I appreaciate it. I guess my question may have been a little unclear. What I was trying to understand was, are the aftermarket plates different in the amount of pedal travel required to get to corresponding throttle positions than the OEM plate. That is, with an OEM plate, 1/4 pedal travel equals 1/4 power output, 1/2 pedal travel means that you're using about 1/2 of your available throttle, etc. I was under the impression that the aftermarket plates are more like 1/4 pedal equals 1/4 throttle, a little more is 1/2 throttle, and before you even get to 1/2 pedal travel, you're at full throttle on the plate. Or maybe I just misunderstood what they were saying.



Back to the twin ram manifold, to the guys that have one, does it seem to make the engine run smoother, even out the vibrations, or anything? From what I read in the rv website, they seemed to think that it really made a difference in how the engine ran, as far as being smoother and quieter. Any opinions on this?



As much as I'd love to start on a BOMBing mission, I can't really afford it right now, but my ultimate goal is to add whatever I can whenever I find a deal or bargain on something that will add to the longevity/durablility of the engine while maintaining or increasing fuel economy, I'm all for it.



I need to make this truck last for a long, long time, and if I can install something that will help me reach that goal, I'll try to do it.

I'd have to believe that the twin ram manifold would help even out the air distribution, which in turn would allow the number one cylinder run a little more evenly with the other cylinders both in power and EGT, which in turn should help with engine smoothness and durability. Right? So if a person would add the twin ram to a relatively stock engine, it should still offer some improvements, shouldn't it?

 

[TxDieselKid]

so would it be that hard????

I know that this is a 12 valve product, but would it be that hard to "rig" somthing up to make it fit on the 24 valve? Or maybe someone could make one that fits?



Any thoughts???



AJB

 

[sewman]

I have a Banks Twin Ram manifold & wished I didn't buy there system it isn't needed as alot of guys are getting 5-600 HP w/o it.

One of the best things to do is get rid of the cat & or muffler which will let it breathe,you can slide your stock torque plate fowards alittle & get your timing advanced . A new plate from TST is only a couple of hundred dollars. Then progress from there & don't worry about the engine just change your oil every 4-5 k

warm it up b4 you work & let the turbo cool dowm b4 you shut it off.

Have Fun,Bob

 

[jsimpson]

Boost is a function of combustion efficiecy. If you get better combustion efficiency on 1 and 6, it will result in more boost.

 

[DBR]

My original purchase of the Twin Ram manifold was based on a limited background in naturally aspirated engines. Thinking with that type of background it is plausible that improving the flow characteristics of the intake would be of a major benefit, however we are working with a forced induced system. I am by no means an expert in flow dynamics, just a simple shade tree mechanic who likes to tinker. Being that the induction is forced (pressurized) there is "x" amount of psi throughout the intake system ready to feed the combustion chamber. The intake system from the turbo to the manifold is 3", splitting the manifold into two runners wouldn't seem to increase additional flow. The only advantage I can see would be that the air traveling to far outward cylinders would have a slightly shorter path and would absorb less heat… just a guess. I would view that the engine (cylinder head) is the overall restriction.

 

[Cooker]

400Magnum,



I don't think adding a Banks intake, especially to a stock engine, would make any difference. You are not pushing enough fuel through it stock to realize any potential gain available.



JMHO,

Ryan

 

[C Schomer]

If I had a leak I don't know where it was. Everything that I removed was tight and the gasket showed good sealing. I have always kept my clamps tight and I've checked the manifold cover bolts a couple times before. Hammer, I answered you twice the best way I knew how - please read my posts again. All I can say is - the Twin Ram has done everything for my engine that I've read about! DBR, that's interesting about the 11 plate and the Banks plate for the Power Pack! The only thing that disappoints me is, the 11 is a great plate but now I need a little more fuel at the very top end. Sewman, were in the same boat! We've both done things that others say don't help, but they do! Go figure! I like your porting report. I didn't know the ports were so far off. I've done gasket matching before and it helped. 400 Magnum, as far as the proportioning that you ask about - I don't know. I've traced the profile of three plates that I've used and can really see where the differences are. The stock plate has very conservative fueling. The ramps slope towards the lean side(back)as rpm goes up and the upper ramp is very lean(fuel limiting)! The other two plates differ greatly on the lower ramp - one(Banks 62408) slopes to the lean direction and the 11 slopes to the rich direction(forward as rpm goes up). The top of the Banks plate is WAY richer than the 11(the entire ramp is farther forward relative to plate position)but the angle of the top ramp looks the same as the 11 and stock plate both. Craig

 

[C Schomer]

I just checked out those three plate profiles again. When I traced them, I sharpened a pencil as good as I could and traced the profile on paper. The angle of the top ramps of all three look the same. The ramp is the farthest back(towards rear of truck/very lean) on the stock plate, way forward on the 62408(very rich) and is in between on the 11. The top edge of the top ramp on all three end at the same heigth but the bottom of the top ramps all start at a different level. The bottom of the top ramp on the 11 starts the lowest(lower rpm/earlier fueling), the 62408 starts higher and the stock one starts the highest of the three(higher rpm/late fueling). I assume the top edge of the top ramp is high enough for the rocker travel with the gov spring kit. I don't remember anyone saying they needed a different plate for that. Craig