Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Banks

[RacinDuallie]

RacinDuallie,

The release of the manifold is probably still a few months away. We have revised the design slightly, improved the casting, and we are in the process of finalizing the cylinder head machining program.

:--) WHOA!!

Well Jeez- Louise! A reply to my question !! It only took repeated phone calls and attempts to get an answer... ... ... .

 

[PeterT]

Beast2B,

Yes, the surface oxidation can easily be removed. I would recommend using Scotch-Brite and some solvent. Over the course of time and enough heat cycles, the oxidation process will diminish.



SRadke,

I am not a metallurgist so I have been relying somewhat on information from our materials manager for information. You are correct, I did not include martensitic in my earlier post, mostly because it would never be used in an automotive exhaust system. The metallurgy guide that I referred to lists 409 stainless as a ferritic material and 304 as an austenitic material. Here are definitions of each from Merriam-Webster:



Ferrite- 1) any of several magnetic substances that consist essentially of ferric (containing iron) oxide combined with the oxides of one or more metals (manganese, nickel, or zinc)… 2) a solid solution in which alpha iron is the solvent



Austenite- a solid solution in iron of carbon and sometimes other solutes that occurs as a constituent of steel under certain conditions



Martensite- the hard constituent that is the chief component of quenched steel



The main point that I was trying to make was that both 300 series and 400 series contain carbon, but in different amounts based on the alloy. The metallurgy guide that I am referring to lists typical uses for each type of material. Automotive exhaust is listed under 409, food processing equipment is listed under 304, and rifle barrels and cutlery are listed under the martensitic category. It should be noted that any stainless can eventually rust in a corrosive enough environment. An example of this is the environment found on a boat in ocean water.



F-15I Ra'am,

Regarding your drone, try adjusting the tip so that it extends more out from under the fender. This can make a significant difference in the sound quality.



Peter Treydte

Banks Power

 

[lschultz]

I bought my exhaust from Banks after they came off the price some said they had some that came back from somewhere and they would sell these at a discount price only maybe 50. 00 off but I got it. Bought the only thing it did for my truck was give it a different tone,lowered exhaust temps about 50 degrees. Truck accerelates faster. No increase in mpg. It I had it to do over again I would try a different exhaust. They always returned my phone calls pretty fast but after the sale they forget you. I think I will go someplace else next time.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Beast2B,

Yes, the surface oxidation can easily be removed. I would recommend using Scotch-Brite and some solvent. Over the course of time and enough heat cycles, the oxidation process will diminish.



SRadke,

I am not a metallurgist so I have been relying somewhat on information from our materials manager for information. You are correct, I did not include martensitic in my earlier post, mostly because it would never be used in an automotive exhaust system. The metallurgy guide that I referred to lists 409 stainless as a ferritic material and 304 as an austenitic material. Here are definitions of each from Merriam-Webster:



Ferrite- 1) any of several magnetic substances that consist essentially of ferric (containing iron) oxide combined with the oxides of one or more metals (manganese, nickel, or zinc)… 2) a solid solution in which alpha iron is the solvent



Austenite- a solid solution in iron of carbon and sometimes other solutes that occurs as a constituent of steel under certain conditions



Martensite- the hard constituent that is the chief component of quenched steel



The main point that I was trying to make was that both 300 series and 400 series contain carbon, but in different amounts based on the alloy. The metallurgy guide that I am referring to lists typical uses for each type of material. Automotive exhaust is listed under 409, food processing equipment is listed under 304, and rifle barrels and cutlery are listed under the martensitic category. It should be noted that any stainless can eventually rust in a corrosive enough environment. An example of this is the environment found on a boat in ocean water.



F-15I Ra'am,

Regarding your drone, try adjusting the tip so that it extends more out from under the fender. This can make a significant difference in the sound quality.



Peter Treydte

Banks Power

PeterT, now why is it a lot of people have to come on here to get this quality of information? If I would have called Banks on the phone, I would have been put on hold and forgot about. I know, as this has already happened:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121755&highlight=Banks



It sounds to me that you know what you are talking about and are knowledgeable and smart enough to know that if you dont know something, you can talk to someone else that is. I know a lot of people have slammed Banks here in this thread, including myself, but when it comes to calling Banks up on the phone, the customer gets treated like they are not even wanted. This makes no sense to me and maybe see if you could forward this thread to someone that is in power to do something about it. JMO

 

[RWatson]

I also took the bait of the great marketing package that Banks has done over the years and purchased a power pack for my 2K shortly after I purchased it. Yes, initially I did notice and enjoyed a nice performance improvement, but from stock, almost anything is better... mooooooooore power please



Over the next year to 19 months, I experienced many problems with high trans temps, not being able to lower EGTs under 300 at idle and TC unlocking with heavy throttling up that it was starting to make me believe I made a mistake in buying my CTD. I kept suspecting the Banks kit and on several occasions contacted Banks for assistance and each time was told that there was no way that the Banks kit could be related to these issues. Their process to prove this was for me to disconnect the link to the pump and if the problems continued, it could not be their product. After another year of extreme frustrations, I finally listened to my heart and pulled the Ottmind module and have not had ANY problems since, empty or loaded.



Yes, it is a shame that I wasted so much money on what I believed like many from marketing, was the perfect fit and like so many learned about TDR after I made this mistake.



I have asked Banks to correct this, but of course no response, so I now own a collectors piece that I keep on my desk as a great conversation piece to remind others to not make the same mistake I have.



IMHO... I am sure that Banks products must be quality or they would have had their butts sued to bankrupcy a long time ago, but they really need to do something to make a me a believer as well as everyone who I speak to about performance products.



To all those who own Banks, never had any problems and enjoy it, congratulations and I'm glad to see you have not experienced what so many of us had, especially related to support. Banks needs to remember that Marketing in a magazine may be a powerful tool, but word of mouth has much more power on the streets.



Randy

 

[PeterT]

GIT-R-DONE,

I often read about how people have difficulty getting the answers they need by phone, and I have analyzed this somewhat to try and figure out why this is. Let me describe how our departments are set up:



Sales Department- We have numerous toll-free numbers that ring into the Sales Department. If you call a toll-free phone number that you find in any of our advertising or literature, your call will first go to our Reception Group. They will ask you a couple of quick questions, basically to determine if you are already in our system (if you have ever inquired with our Sales Department before, then you probably are), and also which department can best meet your needs. From there, your call would be routed to the Sales Department, the Customer Service Department, or the Technical Service Department, depending on the nature of your call. The Sales staff is trained to handle pre-sale questions. This should include questions of a technical nature that might be of interest to a consumer. One of my responsibilities here at Banks is to train the people that are hired to work in the Sales Department. One thing that I always tell them is, if you don’t know the answer to the question, let the customer know that you don’t know, and find out the answer and get back to him. My experience has been that the participants in this forum are generally more knowledgeable than the average consumer, and there may be times that you might ask technical questions that are beyond the grasp of one of our Sales Representatives. If they are doing as instructed, they should seek the proper answer from myself or someone else with the necessary technical information in the company.



Technical Service- We have one toll-free number that rings directly into the Technical Service Group, (888) 839-2700. There are 5 people in the Tech group that have the responsibility to handle after-the-sale technical issues. This would include any type of installation or performance related questions. This is a busy group. The average wait time is around 5 to 8 minutes, but during the peak hours, it can be as much as 15 or 20 minutes. If you are willing to hang in there long enough if you are calling during those peak times, they will eventually answer your call. I recommend calling between 8:00 and 10:00 AM. That is their least busy time.



Customer Service- We also have a toll-free number that is dedicated to Customer Service, (888) 839-5600. They are 4 people in this department that are trained to handle shipping and billing issues. However, if you have a technical question about a product that is not related to installation or performance, chances are they can answer the question or get the answer for you. They are not as busy as Technical Support, so that is an alternative.



I can imagine how a caller might wind up on hold in the Technical Department’s phone queue and be frustrated by this. The main point that I would make is that the only reason you should need to talk to that department is for installation and performance related issues. One of the reasons that that department is busy is because they get a lot of calls that could easily be handled by one of the other departments.



I am also available to answer tech questions, either through a PM here or directly by e-mail (ptreydte @ bankspower.com). If you feel that you have been “put off” by someone in any department at Banks, feel free to PM or e-mail me so that the issue can be addressed. Please ask for a name from the person that you have been speaking with.



RWatson,

I will PM you. I would like to get some information from you. There may be a way that we can improve your situation.

 

[JLitton]

Hey guys,



Lets give Peter some props. He has stepped up to the plate and answered alot of questions. First, let me say this, I own Edge. However, I think some of you guys bash on Banks because you think its fun. Kinda like bashing on Jeff Gordon if you're a NASCAR fan. We all know that he is good, but we still bash on him any chance we get.



What you all fail to realize, (maybe you do) is that there are alot of guys on here looking for good upgrades to our trucks. If a newbie were to read these Banks bashing threads there is no way they would buy their product. Is that fair? Hardly. If money didn't matter, yes I would buy Banks. Do I want to the the most bang for my buck. Sure I do. Banks has good products and sometimes we should acknowledge that.



I'll get off my soapbox now... .

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

PeterT,

First off, thanks for being a stand up guy and answering my questions. That in itself gains repect from me. I could give you details about my former situation, but I cant remember any names for sure. I just wish that I could get this type of explanation and service over the phone when I did call. Now I know whom to get a hold of, any future questions will be directed to you either PM of e-mail. Thanks for shedding some light on the situation.

 

[Beast2B]

ditto the props to Peter. I really think it's past time Banks jumped into this (and other) diesel-head forums. It's a known sales/service fact: A happy customer might tell 1 or 2 people, but an unhappy customer will tell EVERYONE! Multiply those numbers for a website like this and it could impact your business.

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

Peter T

I wish you would get your facts straight, the BANKS Stainless Steal Monster Exhaust that I have does rust through. My "Banks" muffler looks like swiss cheese and is falling apart after two winters in Michigan. The entire bottom of the muffler has lots of pin holes through it and leaks exhaust :--) . The pipes now have a dirty brown covering (looks like rust to me) and the clamps are in bad shape as well. This exhaust had a terrible drone to it until I installed a resonator in front of the muffler . You might want to note the resonator is made of aluminized steel and still looks like new after two years. It took me several weeks and many phone calls to get you company to address these issues, and finally you did take care of it. As for your other products like your intercoolers and high rise intakes I have been very impressed with those products and would recommend them, but for your exhaust system, unless you live in the southern states where there is NO salt used buy an aluminized system and save yourself a lot of money. I will post photos of my Banks monster system later today to drive my point home.

Kyle

 

[SRadke]

Although I have little experience wiht Banks products and have never owned any personally I would like to give props to Peter for his presence here. It's not an easy job to stand up to the crowd such as the one in this thread and back your products. I've always believed Banks has some nice products I just don't like how they're all designed to work with one another. Honestly, unplug the box and the gauges die? That's just poor IMO.



Peter seems to be a sharp guy who is willing to do some research and tries to shoot the straight answers and I respect that. I beleive if I had warrantee issues with a Banks product I'd start with him. He may send me elswhere in the company for the technical stuff but I believe he would do his best to make it right. Thanks for that.



-Scott

 

[jrhodes]

As by my truck profile I have some Banks products as well as other upgrades. I must be one of the few people that have had a good experience with the Banks product. This is the first diesel truck I have ever owned and did not know much about it or this site for that matter back in 1999. Stumbled across a Banks ad and went to their web site and started reading about their products. Over the years of gaining knowledge from this site about different different aftermarket products, I would probably still purchase Banks Products for the reliability of them. I've never had a problem with anything from Banks. Granted they may be a bit expensive but reliability is also peace of mind. Granted the few times I have called, it takes awhile to talk to a live person, but in todays world how many different places can you call and not get some automated bullsh--, where you have to go through some 9 step menu to reach somebody only to get their voice mail. Sign of the times I guess. Thats just my . 02 cents worth.

 

[SnoKing]

I ran Banks gauges in my 1993 and have them in my 2001. 5, I have been happy with both. I have a Banks Exhaust brake because stepson is a banks dealer, and have a Banks/Magnaflow hybred exhaust system because I got the 4" Banks Brake. Banks does well in big production shops that do Motorhomes and such. I would not consider them for a performance chip, and their statements about manufactures warranties leave a bit to be desired. SNOKING

 

[DThelen]

I got my exhaust yesterday. I got a MBRP. It was suppose to be a diamond eye system and come in as the MBRP alumized. I won it off ebay for 300 shipped to my door. It's a really nice system. One piece tail pipe. All hanger welded in place. Sounds good too. It maybe a little louder than I would like, but I will try it out for a wile.



I can't believe Banks wouldn't work with me on the price. If they would have, I may have one of them right now!!

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

Well after a week of waiting to hear from again Peter T to see if Banks wanted my ventilated Banks Monster Exhaust muffler back to see what went wrong I have come to these conclusions.

1st Banks customer service is has not changed, lots of talk but no action or follow through.

2nd Banks would rather spend tens of thousands of dollars in advertising than promote word of mouth advertising with a solid and responsible customer service department which would cost far less and be very effective.

3rd Banks must be aware of the rusting issue of their monster exhaust and choose not to do anything about fixing the problem.



I did receive a phone call from Peter right after my first posting and he had stated that there wasn't any one else that was having a rust out issue with their exhaust. Peter also stated that he was looking into making arrangements for me to send back my rusted muffler so they could see what went wrong. This was the last I have heard from Peter since last week. I did PM Peter to see what was up, and have yet to receive a reply from him.

For the record, the only reason that I have posted in this thread is I am tired of seeing Banks make claims of service or that they are fixing their problems with their customer service or exhaust drone/rusting issues. I have been hearing about and have dealt with Banks customer service issues since after my first purchase of a Banks intercooler for my 1991. I have purchased 2 Banks intercoolers, a set of Banks gauges, 1 one Banks monster exhaust, and 1 Banks high rise intake and everything except the exhaust I have been completely happy with. On the other hand the customer service and follow through has been totally lacking.

So here are some photos of the muffler as I had promised, I did have to use engine cleaner to remove all the soot that has leaked from the rust holes (muffler was completely black from the soot) so you could get a better view of the muffler. These are only a few of the holes and I have placed a nail to show they are through the muffler. I did feel with the nails that there is some type of fiber matting is inside the muffler which might be the reason for the rusting. I have cut off the muffler and straight piped the truck and later this week I will cut open the muffler and take photos of what I find since Banks won't do it.

 

[PeterT]

CrewCabDiesel,

I apologize for not responding to your PM. When we spoke on the phone, I offered to send you a replacement system, and you said that you had plans to go to a 5” system, so the Banks components would not suit your needs. I told you that I was still interested in seeing the parts to examine the failure. I asked that when you were ready to replace the system with a 5” system to let me know, and I would make arrangements to have the parts sent back here for review. I can tell you from looking at the pictures that you do not have a current version of the muffler. Our current muffler has a polished 304 stainless case, which would definitely resist the corrosion problem that you are facing.



Since our stainless products carry a lifetime warranty, I am still willing to replace yours, as we originally talked about. If this is what you would like, let me know and I will have someone in our Customer Service Department take care of it for you. I will PM my contact information to you.



Peter Treydte

Banks Power

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

A BIG THANKS goes out to PeterT,

Peter stepped up to the plate a sent a replacement Banks Monster Exhaust system. It arrived Thursday and I installed it Sunday, yea I know it was Mothers day, it was her present, the house doesn't shake when the truck is running anymore .

Here is what I can tell you about the new exhaust system, the muffler is different and has a very nice polished finish to it and the the fit of this system seems to be much better (didn't bust one knuckle on the install ). As for the sound of the exhaust going down the road, it allows for the Cummins rumble to come through but at a level your neighbors can live with (especially after they had to listen to my truck straight piped for two weeks :-laf ). As for the drone at 2000 RPM this muffler deals with it much better than the old style Banks muffler. The drone is still there but not to the point of having to add an additional resonator to tone it down as I had to do last time.

So to cap it off, this newer Banks System looks and sounds much better than the first one I installed.

Kyle