Bashing hydroformed frames.

[DChatfield]

I was following this thread over @ Dieselstop and would like some opinions on Dodges hydroformed frames. If you can point me to any technical specs/testing that would be great. I'm especially interested in the one thread that says "if you drive in the rust belt water and salt will get inside the frame and rust from the inside out. " I do know that the F150 frame is also hydroformed and its just a matter of time before all frames will probably go this route, but why?



Heres the thread: http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubb...78458&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1



Heres an excerpt from the thread:

"We will see what the boxed frames do in the rust belt when the salt water from the roads gets inside the frame and rusts it from the inside out like a Toyota.

You look at trucks grossing 80,000lbs plus still use C

channel ladder frame because it is proven and strong. "





2003 2500 SLT, QC, LWB,4x4, H. O, 6 Spd, 3. 73, TAG, B&W turnover, Currently hauling a 2002 Starcraft tourstar pop-up camper.



Oo.

 

[NSperduto]

I don't know about that, my 56 Plymouth has a box frame and I'm still driving it and it never rotted.

 

[lmills]

sounds to me like they are just pulling straws. They are upset about their sorry excuse of a diesel that they have for an option

 

[Buzzer]

JMO but you can't believe everything thats written on the internet. The hydroformed frame is stronger then the standard boxed frame and as far as rust goes the hydroformed frames have been used in Corvettes as well as other vehicles for 7 years now and I do not believe there have been any rust issues. Just my 2 cents.

 

[XcumminsX]

Why do they focus on our trucks when there engines are creating there own oil, and cracking crankshafts... I just dont get it. .



Nick

 

[FATCAT]

New "DH" Series Ram Trucks????

Looking at the link above and in that link there is a link to the Chevy site where some guy states:



"There is a new Ram truck getting ready to be introduced soon called the "DH" series as apposed to the current "DR" series rams. My area sales rep said this is most likely a factory cab&chassis and the medium duty's will probably launch at the same time. "



This is posted by Luke S about 1/2 way down ...



OK, now for the enevitable question ... What's this guy talking about?

 

[DKiesewetter]

Here's a question...



I have ehard the you stress a hydroformed frame by welding to it... we hav taco'ed a 3/4 ton subbie frame that had a ranchhand bumper welded to it, and the place that fixed the frame said that the damage was because of heat damge to hydroformed frame.



Is it not possible to weld bumpers to the new hydroformed frames?



Doug

 

[XcumminsX]

warrant = void if you do...





Nick

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Personally, I think the hydroformed frames might be stronger out-the-door, but definitely more fragile to any mods, and MAYBE more susceptible to increasing weakness if exposed to significant deterioration over years/miles. I agree with the guy about the older style frames that were more insensitive to treatment and elements - just do what ya gotta do, and don't even worry about it... We sorta knocked the "new hydroformed frames" when GM started using them in THEIR trucks - but sure changed our tune when WE got them too... We got these frames, not because they were particularly BETTER, but because they were easier and CHEAPER to make!



That's my opinion, and I'm stuck with it...

 

[DKiesewetter]

Originally posted by Nick Sommer

warrant = void if you do...





Nick

Ok, so that sucks... What is the general consensus on bif replacment bumpers bolted on?



I used to have my ranchhand bolted to my rear frame on my truck and would shear the bolts off anytime I even bumped into something... well my bump is a pretty good tag.



Without welding these bumpers on what good do they do us?



Drill holes and use more bolts?



Doug

 

[Buzzer]

Hydroformed frames are cheaper to manufacture but are STRONGER then the traditional frame. Less flexing and less welds make for a stronger unitized platform.



In coming years any vehicle with a framed platform wili be utilizing this type of frame. As technology moves us along better and cheaper production methods will emerge.

 

[KCJackson]

Re: New "DH" Series Ram Trucks????

Originally posted by FATCAT

"There is a new Ram truck getting ready to be introduced soon called the "DH" series as apposed to the current "DR" series rams. My area sales rep said this is most likely a factory cab&chassis and the medium duty's will probably launch at the same time. "



OK, now for the enevitable question ... What's this guy talking about?

Originally, the Ram chassis/cab was supposed to see a Job 1 of April. Those notes have been removed from industry-watching sites, so it probably won't see daylight til the fall.

 

[draymorris]

From what I have read you are supposed to squeeze the frame with plates on both sides and spacers in the center when you attach bumpers. If you cannot put spacers in, the plates need to be heavy enough to keep from bending the frame when the bolts are tightened. These frames are so thin that you need to be attached to both sides of the frame anyway. I would not weld anything to these frames because they are so thin. Although, my dealer had my gooseneck hitch installed before I took delivery. The people they use to install welded my hitch in just like the old trucks - outside of frame only. I keep checking for cracks and everything seems good so far. I pull at 39k gross every weekend so the hitch gets abused - I still would not install a hitch like that, but at least it's working.

 

[FATCAT]

?????????

Originally posted by Buzzer

Hydroformed frames are cheaper to manufacture but are STRONGER then the traditional frame. Less flexing and less welds make for a stronger unitized platform.



In coming years any vehicle with a framed platform wili be utilizing this type of frame. As technology moves us along better and cheaper production methods will emerge.

So are we going to see Hydroformed frames on Peterbilts, Kenworths, Western Stars ... .



God I hope not, from what is being written about this new frame technology.

 

[DPelletier]

- I doubt the class 8's have enough production volume to justify the hydroforming equipment at the present time.



- I agree with most of Gary's comments, these frames may be stronger, but that doesn't necessarily make the better, especially for modifying them or adding components. On the other hand, It wasn't long ago that 1 Ton DRW trucks were rated at 10,000 lbs GVWR. My '03 is rated at 12,000 GVWR and I thought I read somewhere that the '04. 5's were @ 12,200 lbs GVWR. If the hydroformed frame helped get the GVWR to that level, then I'm happy with it.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned, but I'm hoping that the extra rigidity helps the truck feel "tight" longer with less flexing, there should be less squeeks, rattles, etc. than in years past.

Ultimately the GM Boys are grasping at straws. Thier engine isn't as good, thier man. transmission isn't as strong, the frame hangs down too far and thier design department was smoking crack when they designed the front end! .



Dave

 

[DChatfield]

hydroforming is inevitable

This is who builds our frames.











Tower Automotive, Inc. , is a global designer and producer of vehicle structural components and assemblies used by every major automotive original equipment manufacturer, including Ford, DaimlerChrysler, GM, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Fiat, Hyundai/Kia, BMW, and Volkswagen Group. Products include body structures and assemblies, lower vehicle frames and structures, chassis modules and systems, and suspension components. The company is based in Grand Rapids, Mich. Additional company information is available at www.towerautomotive.com

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"hydroforming is inevitable"



SO is plastic, poorer fuels, and more EPA controls - but that doesn't mean it's GOOD, or that we hafta LIKE it!

 

[Bertram65]

Originally posted by draymorris

From what I have read you are supposed to squeeze the frame with plates on both sides and spacers in the center when you attach bumpers. If you cannot put spacers in, the plates need to be heavy enough to keep from bending the frame when the bolts are tightened. These frames are so thin that you need to be attached to both sides of the frame anyway. I would not weld anything to these frames because they are so thin. Although, my dealer had my gooseneck hitch installed before I took delivery. The people they use to install welded my hitch in just like the old trucks - outside of frame only. I keep checking for cracks and everything seems good so far. I pull at 39k gross every weekend so the hitch gets abused - I still would not install a hitch like that, but at least it's working.

39K lbs that's a pretty good testiment to the truck and the frame. What does it tow like and how much pin weight do you have?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"but I'm hoping that the extra rigidity helps the truck feel "tight" longer with less flexing,"



I can't speak for the Dodge frames - but the primary COMPLAINT about the GM hydroformed frames was the LARGE amount of flexing they displayed under loads and over irregular surfaces...



I think it is EXACTLY the ability of these frames to FLEX without breaking (supposedly) that was considered a "benefit". Great, as long as there's not a price to later be paid in eventual sheetmetal stress fractures if large degrees of flexing IS a fact...

 

[Buzzer]

Re: ?????????

Originally posted by FATCAT

So are we going to see Hydroformed frames on Peterbilts, Kenworths, Western Stars ... .



God I hope not, from what is being written about this new frame technology.

Never!! There was an interesting program on TV about the larger rigs and their need "flex". There is so much torque being put to the ground, and with the weight their pulling, if the body didn't flex then there woulfd be a whole lot of parts on the highway. LOL!!