2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission batteries

[DouglasWilliams]

hey guys (and gals)

im new to this forum, but have been on many jeep forums in the past.

i didnt see a search option, so im asking a question that im sure has been asked before.



i have a 99 24v with 120K miles. i have recently been having battery problems (so im guessing). after talking with a fellow TDR member, he has replaced both of his batteries 3 times in the last 4 years. is this a regular problem associated with this truck?



in the morning, if i dont 'wait to start' i have enough juice to crank her over, but if i 'wait to start' the fuel heater sucks all the power from the batteries, not allowing enough to start. once im running, the voltage quickly jumps back to 14v and im fine, usually for the whole day.



so, is there something sucking the power from the batteries when not running? is this a common problem? if so, what batteries have you been successful with? also, does anybody know what battery group number is best?

tia. .

doug

 

[San Felipe Bob]

Odessy 1700's

I have 2 Odessy 1700's.

I drove from New Mexico to southern California without an Alternator.

The battery trays need to be slightly modified and the cables barely fit.

They are expensive and worth every penny!!!!



SFB

 

[EdK]

Long life here!

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I just recently replaced the ORIGINAL batteries in my '99 with 140K miles. That's with the cold Ohio winters and drawing them down with the snow plow!!! They still held a charge, but I didn't want to push my luck!



Ed

 

[rweis]

Might try desulfating the batteries.



Bob Weis

 

[SRath]

My '96, also with a snow plow and cold Iowa winters, still has the batteries it had when I bought it 8 years ago and they show no signs of giving up yet. Champion 4x4 batteries... not really a high dollar brand to my knowledge. I have no idea how old they really are, but the guy I bought it from made no mention of having bought new ones recently.



Batteries are weird. My '97 Suzuki DR650 motorcycle still has the battery it rolled out of the dealership with. Each winter, it sits in the freezing cold garage for months. It often goes for weeks without being ridden in the summer, too.



All I have ever done is occassionally (like once every 6 weeks if I remember) put a tiny 1 amp trickle charger on it for a day or so. Every spring, I expect to buy a new one. Every spring, an overnight 1 amp charge is all it needs for whole summer. It just amazes me...



The worst-for-the-money batteries I have ever had as far as longevity-per-dollar are Optimas. Pure hype. And I've tried the red, blue, and yellow ones in everything from my daily driver pickup to my boat, to my camper. Wasted money. Many batteries costing 1/4 as much perform as well or better and as long or longer. (I know; this will ruffle some feathers... let the heresy trial begin... ).

 

[Gene Arnold]

Mine are seven years old and still doing fine. They're not even a matched pair. One is an Interstate that was in the truck when I bought it in January 2001 (previous owner bought it in July, 2000), the other, from Costco, was bought in mid 2000 for my '94 Chevy truck and I put it in the Dodge when I bought it.



Gene

 

[BarryG]

My 01 still has the orignal batteries with 210k on the them. The past year they have started to not leak but say weep a bit. Time to replace them I think even though they still start fine. Dont want to find out this winter in the middle of BFE that I should have changed them the previous week. Was actually looking just last night at batteries now time to decide which ones.

 

[DouglasWilliams]

so, no stories of anyone going through many sets of batteries?
and does anyone know what group number our stock batteries are?

 

[rweis]

Let me first say I am in Florida,



I get mine from WalMart, 3 year total replacement, 9 year pro-rated.



Bob Weis

 

[WDixon27]

a week or so after i got my truck one of the mismatched crappy batteries it had in it shorted and sucked the other one flat, i charged that one up and drove it to sam's wholesale club and got 2 group 24 (i think, 24 or 27 i can't remember) batteries for $78 out the door, or about half the cost of one red top, i figured at that price i could replace the set 3 more times before reaching the cost of a set of optimas which probably won't last as long as 4 sets of conventionals, which even if i only get 2 years a set gets me 8 years, i am at 2 years now..... :-laf

 

[WDaniels]

DouglasWilliams,

Ok, lets seperate your problem from your friends. I've never heard of anyone having to replace that many batteries that quickly before. Might have a alternator problem. As far as your problem, 1. It is not your fuel heater that is drawing down your batteries during the morning start. It is 99. 999% sure that it is your grid heaters. If your batteries are from 99 they are over 8 years old. Might be nice to change them. If your alt guage is jumping up to 14 volts right after start, it shouldn't. Your meter will stay around 8 volts until your heaters kick off. Your meter should go up and down as the grid heaters cycle. They will continue to cycle until the engine is warm. I forget at what temp they quit cycling. If you start driving right away, when you reach 20 miles an hour, the heaters will quit cycling and you should be charging. If your still not getting a charge take your alternator to a NAPA or some such and have it tested. Then check all your connections for corrosion. There are good batteries out there to use. Interstates are pretty good. And no matter how much I bad mouth Sears,:-{} they have great batteries also. And if your up here Alaska Battery, batteries are the best. But you are not up here. :-laf Listen to SRath about the Optimas! They are not worth the plastic they are made of. Hope this helps.

WD

 

[fest3er]

I can't speak for cold weather. The red Optimas I installed five years ago (purchased from Advance) are still behaving like new down here in Virginia. And this past February, they started my truck numerous times (like 10-20) one morning when it was -14F and my fuel was gelled.

The first thing to check if you suspect rapid battery drain is the intake heater relays. They are known to be of marginal quality. The internal 'return' spring is very weak and gets weaker at it ages; it can allow the contactor to close the circuit keeping the heaters on, even though the relay control says 'turn off'.

Next time you are driving at night and can see your headlights and dash lights clearly, check to see if there is any flickering as you drive over rough roads. And check to see if the flickering abates when you drive over smooth roads. If this is the case, you can almost be assured that at least one relay is weak and ready to fail. If you see any melted stuff on your engine (heater insulators, AFC boost line on 12V or other plastic stuff on the intake side), the heaters have already stuck on at least once.

See my web page Replacing the OEM Dodge Cummins Intake Heater Relays With Better Units to see how I permanently cured this problem. These relays have been in my truck for six years now and still run like new and still give a satisfying 'tock' when they disengage and a satisfying 'click' when they engage.

 

[Grizzly]

DouglasWilliams,

Ok, lets seperate your problem from your friends. I've never heard of anyone having to replace that many batteries that quickly before. Might have a alternator problem. As far as your problem, 1. It is not your fuel heater that is drawing down your batteries during the morning start. It is 99. 999% sure that it is your grid heaters. If your batteries are from 99 they are over 8 years old. Might be nice to change them. If your alt guage is jumping up to 14 volts right after start, it shouldn't. Your meter will stay around 8 volts until your heaters kick off. Your meter should go up and down as the grid heaters cycle. They will continue to cycle until the engine is warm. I forget at what temp they quit cycling. If you start driving right away, when you reach 20 miles an hour, the heaters will quit cycling and you should be charging. If your still not getting a charge take your alternator to a NAPA or some such and have it tested. Then check all your connections for corrosion. There are good batteries out there to use. Interstates are pretty good. And no matter how much I bad mouth Sears,:-{} they have great batteries also. And if your up here Alaska Battery, batteries are the best. But you are not up here. :-laf Listen to SRath about the Optimas! They are not worth the plastic they are made of. Hope this helps.

WD

Good post. We love Alaska. Been there twice.



I like Costco batteries. Can't beat the price and the warranty.

 

[OL RATLR]

so, no stories of anyone going through many sets of batteries?

and does anyone know what group number our stock batteries are?

Group 3478

 

[WDaniels]

Hey Fest,

I've had my grids on my truck since the truck was new. 240K and climing. Maybe time for new ones. Did you get my PM?

WD

 

[fest3er]

Hey Fest,

I've had my grids on my truck since the truck was new. 240K and climing. Maybe time for new ones. Did you get my PM?

WD

Sure did! You get my reply? (Talk about out-of-band signalling!)



If you don't notice any flickering when you hit bumpy roads, the relays are likely OK. Maybe those cheap relays Dodge uses are rather susceptible to freeze-thaw cycles, which would explain why yours still work: up there in AK, it thaws on 7/3 and freezes on 7/5. Oh, wait. No. That's two-season Minnesota: Winter and the Fourth of July. Up where you are, it thaws with dawn and freezes with dusk on the 6th of August. Your relays should last forever at that rate.



N

 

[WDaniels]

Me thinks that your are making fun of our seasons up here Fest. Well..... I just want to let you know that we have 4 distinct seasons. June, July, August and winter. It keeps it simple. When you work on your truck, you better work fast because if you don't you'll get snowed on or frozen. :-laf If I come down your way this Dec, maybe I'll see what it is really like in the lower 48 during the winter.

WD

 

[Bob Cochran]

I have had good success with Optima Red Tops they have been in for 6 years. In Phoenix it was never cold but here in East Central Arizona I have started a few times in minus single digits in the last 3 years. I probably should not have said this as I am sure I will have battery problems now!!!

 

[FLynes]

I'll second the idea that Optimas aren't worth the plastic they're made with. The guy who refurbished my Airstream put in an Optima Blue top... a year and a half later I wake up in the middle of the night to rotten egg smell and hissing. I freaked out thinking it was a gas leak. After shutting the gas off and venting the trailer, I'm still hearing the hiss. I trace the noise to the rear of the trailer, where the Optima is. Sure enough, it was the culprit. The battery was so hot, I burned myself getting it out of the compartment. One of the plugs had blown off. Stupid dummy that I am, I went out and bought another one. I haven't had any problems yet, but I can tell you that I will never pay $210 for a battery again.



My '01 had the Wal-Mart specials in it, when I bought it. They were crusted up with white powder. I promptly took them out, baking soda'd the entire battery holding areas, rinsed it all off and went to the local dealer and bought two new Mopar batteries. Haven't had one lick of problems yet. From what I'm reading, the OEM batteries are the way to go. By the way, I paid $55/battery.

 

[K5IP]

Two thouhts here.

One, isolate any possibility of an unknown load by removing both negative battery leads over night. See if that eliminates the problem. If it does, measure the ambient current, (should be only a few milliamps). If higher, start removing fuses untill you find the fault.

Two, you might have one defective battery which loads (discharges) the other one. After removing the negative leads overnight, check the open circuit voltages of each battery prior to reconnecting cables. They should be the same. If one is lower, it is bad (i. e. internal leakage).

Rog



Two,