BDDL & Ramifier (or other fueling box stacks)

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

I've read good things about the BDDL and Ramifier stack. What I haven't seen is any dyno results that show what difference the Ramifier adds to the party. Anyone have any?? Also, what percent (approximately) are you able to use the Ramifier with the BDDL? I realize it's a dial. What fuel rail pressures does this combo make? Is anyone running someother fueling box with the BDDL? Results if any?? Tks.

 

[AK RAM]

What fuel rail pressures does this combo make?

A lot. Think about that... ... Your stacking the BDDL, which already gives you 50hp worth of pressure, with the RAMifier, which commands 100+ HP via pressure. Together, this stack is commanding 150hp via pressure. There is not that much hp in the rail via pressure to give. Despite where the pressure rise is stopping, it is safe to say rail pressure is being maxed, regardless. I guess as long as you understand that and are OK doing that to your truck.....



The best stack I have found for the BDDL is the VA C3. 2 duration box. The BullyDog on Extreme is already giving you 50hp worth of pressure (so they say). Most would admit that is already about as much pressure as you would want to do safely. However, the Extreme program is only giving you 90hp worth of timing/duration, so there is plenty of room left for more duration. Stack the BDDL on Extreme with the VA on 50% and look out. Add the numbers and this should just slightly surpass the TST on 5/5 with EZ on 3 stack, which with a pusher pump, air, exhaust, and turbo, should put you very close to 500rwhp any day of the week. Very nice stack and gives you a measure of adjustability. Turn the VA up to 100% and your asking for component breaking power. Truly insane acceleration, however my engine didn't like that much duration with the little bit of timing the BDDL provides. It could use a tad more timing.



I also stacked the BDDL with the 100HP switchable pressure boxes, but it didn't come close to providing the power that the VA stack provided. If I turned the pressure box up any higher than 50% of it's capacity, it made my injectors rattle something fierce. I didn’t like that at all. If you can pick up a used VA C3. 2 cheap, you won’t be disappointed.

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Input,

AK,



And that is exactly why I asked the question. Good input, tks.

 

[SRadke]

I've got a Ramifier stacked on my TST currently. I usually leave the Ramifier off for driving but when it's time to go I turn it up to about 1/3. Dynoed two days ago with 1/3 pressure and TST on 8:5 made 503hp/841tq.



-Scott

 

[DLeno]

good reoort AK. your results:



1. agree with my work showing that only about 65-80 horspower or so is availble via pressure before the pressure relief valve goes. beyond that, any additional power has to come from duration and timing, no matter what hocus pocus any arbitrary box does. If a box truly delivers more than 65-80 horsepower, then it either pops the pressure relief valve, or invokes timing and duration. or both.



2. suggest that there may be more power available without connecting directly to the injectors than I once thought. VA is the only one that does it with an external box. the downloaders do it with software. TST and Edge connect directly to the injector control harness, so presumedly they may be able to hold the injector open longer. the question is, however, is whether or not such extreme duration is useful. I suspect not.



3. suggest that there may be a limit to the amount of duration allowable via software (downloaders). If the physical limits of the on-board injector driving circuitry are higher than the software limits within which the downloaders must play, then that would explain why the downloader+C3. 2 stack is so effective.

 

[GWoody]

MMMMMMM, I've got a VA duration box laying around, I bet that would be a good stack with the new box that SP Diesel has out that does timing and pressure, what do y'all think about that. Or maybe with the ramifier, I do like the way SP appears to be controling the boost electronically on the 04. 5 & 05.

 

[DennisPerry]

OT-OF-HERE,



You will not exceed any rail pressures on the stack because the Ramifier won't allow it. The max fuel pressure that you will see on a 2003-04 non 600 is 2000 bar which equals 29,400 psi at WOT. If you have a 2004. 5 to current 600 series the max psi is 28,400 which equals 1931 bar. These max pressures can only be reached when WOT and they do not exceed the max limits of the Bosch pump. ( These figures were not generated by TS Performance they were given to us from Bosch).



The problem with pressure boxes that use resistors and are not fully programmable throughout the rpm range is you will obtain max psi at half throttle etc. When this happens there is a good chance you can blow the factory pop-off. With the Ramifier we rewrite the fuel pressure and the map sensor fuel curves and this allows us to obtain the 100hp without taking a chance on damaging your factory pump.



As a manufacture we do want the customers to know and

understand what they are purchasing. If the Ramifier fits your needs then we would like you to have one, if it doesn't fit your needs then we can at least help in guiding you in the right direction.

 

[DennisPerry]

Doug,



Can you explain to everyone why we can achieve 100 rwhp while plugging into the map and the fuel pressure sensor and not exceed any limits of the pump. It is called rewriting the factory maps to the sensors and not using resistors.



Dennis

 

[OT-OF-HERE!!]

Dennis Perry

Dennis,



Tks very much for your input. That helps me to better understand the stack and what the Ramifier brings to the party and the safeguards you have engineered into your product. I'm sure many others appreciate the knowledge also.



Pat

 

[DLeno]

Doug,



Can you explain to everyone why we can achieve 100 rwhp while plugging into the map and the fuel pressure sensor and not exceed any limits of the pump. It is called rewriting the factory maps to the sensors and not using resistors.



Dennis

Sure. The ECM responds to a variety of inputs, and responds accordingly. external boxes lie to the ECM to make it do things it would not normally do. When you tell the ECM that rail pressure is low, it tries to raise it. When you re-map the boost signal the ECM sees boost lies in addition to fuel pressure lies, and it will fuel accordingly. Thus, the ECM (when lied to) is able to dial up more than just pressure in its attempt to correct the very situation we create by installing the box (in this case the situation we "create" is low rail pressure and high boost pressure). So you get a some timing and duration in addition to pressure.



with simple, pure pressure, it would take over 30,000 PSI in the rail to acheive 100 HP, because you get only about 13 RWHP per 1,000 PSI. At 26,000 PSI you are only at about 40 HP. the fact that such boxes acheive 100 HP is evidence that more than just pressure is involved. How high the pressure actually goes I'm afraid I don't know. it can't be measured conviniently (the rail pressure sender appears to be an unreliable indicator of actual rail pressure above approximately 26,000 PSI on the 03-04s) and the ECM commands are probably not a reliable indicator either (no guarentee that commanded pressures are actually achieved in the rail).



more complete explanations on rail pressure in TDR issue #48. regretfully, issue #47 fell victim to some Murphyisms and did not appear as intended. for example, 26,000 PSI is the limit of the on board pressure sender in our tests, not the set point of the pressure relief valve. -Doug