Best economy

[Cooker]

I am also under the impression that running with propane doesn't yield a lower cost per mile, but if you are looking for distance between stops and a little extra push it could be what you are looking for.

 

[mhenon]

Propane vs straight diesel

Groover, your calculations were interesting. But now you got me thinking again!!

Your cost are based on propane at $3. 00 per gallon. It´s not near that expensive here. I´ve seen propane for under $2. 00 per gallon. There´s still the problem of getting fuel and propane on every fill-up unless you have a large propane tank in the bed which was sorta my plan..... large (30 to 50 gallon) fuel tank or large propane tank. You know... something that would last for 5 or 6 fill-ups before having to get more propane. Since I have about a 700 mile range on the stock fuel tank and the propane would give me a 10% increase over that... I could go maybe 4000 miles between propane fills... right. . or did miss something.

If thats the case. . and there is a 10% or better increase in economy, I´m thinking it´s a toss-up again.

I don´t know why this propane thing is appealing to me. Just something about a cleaner burn, efficiency, less emissions, more power if needed, etc. .

I´m glad we had this much discussion on the subject. Whatever I do it will be this summer so there´s still time for the final decision. And I´m right back to square one. The real question now is the cost of the propane. So lets get all the facts in line here.

Using propane:

1. There is an increase in BTU´s ( power on demand)

2. There is a more efficient burn (less emissions)

3. An increase in fuel economy (10% minimum)

4. Extended range



But, somewhere around $2. 00 per gallon (for propane) is the break even point. Hmmmm! Still gotta look into this.

Thanks again for the replies.

Mike

 

[dpuckett]

Hate to burst y'alls bubble, but there is the safety factor. Your average Toyota/ F-150/ luxury SUV driver aint getting any better and paying less attention as time wears on. Should one of those nitwits broadsie you at say 35mph, you could turn into a mobile barbecue pit for those within a 2block radius. While it may be nice to be able to brag about 25+mpg with propane, in my opinion it just aint worth the risk. Injectors, timing, and air/ exhaust flow improvements are the way *I'd* go.



Daniel

 

[Groover]

Mhenon, My calculations were based on 30% mileage increase with propane (being very kind). I understand the actual claim is 10% which changes things dramatically.



I myself think people are misled with the "mileage improvement" claims of propane systems and are trying to justify the cost of the unit in that it will improve mileage. "mileage improvement" translates to "save me money" which I can't see happening.



I can't understand buying a $30k+ truck and spending thousands more in the name of "mileage" that you will never keep the truck long enough to see a return.



I say go ahead and buy the propane system if you "wan't" it.



Just don't tell me you bought it so you could save money.



That would be like my wife buying 6 pairs of shoes (that she doesn't need) on sale and telling me "look how much I saved you!"

 

[OnlyCummins]

Here's a FWIW: April '00 issue of "Four Wheeler", pp108-110, has an article describing the installation of an ATS propane system on a '99 Ford Super Duty PS with less than 10K miles. Here are some of the highlights:



* Conservative 20% fuel mileage gain with small orifice. Even better on engines with mechanical-injection pumps bc "... you can cut back on the fuel rate, set the boost switch for injection at a low-boost setting ... ".



* Power increase of ~20% with small orifice.



* ~5:1 ratio of dieselropane.



Couple of points:



Propane in my area (FL) is about the price of diesel, $1. 579 for dsl vs $1. 599 for propane. Here's a link to Flying J's fuel prices for confirmation: http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/gasoline_CF.cfm. And I believe it's available at even lower prices from any one of the local distributors.



Additional advantage to running propane is improvement in engine longevity. Straight propane gasoline engine conversions will run *forever* or what, practically amounts to forever. 700+K mile engines are pretty common. Also, at least on gasoline engine conversions, the oil remains visually pristine & most folks change oil only after "... loosing their nerve ... " as the oil is still 'see-thru' after 10+K miles.



And finally, a propane conversion doesn't have to cost much. Most of the parts needed can be bought used & there are instructions on the internet for building safe DIY systems. The biggest expense, whether new or used, will be the tank. A FYI: tank capacities are based on W. C. (Water Content?) capacity or how much water? it would take to fill but the tanks should only be filled to 80% of their capacity for safety. So a 30 gal cap rate tank would actually only hold 24 gal of propane.



I plan on installing a system on my 'future' truck for the following reasons in order of importance from high to low:



* Longevity (I'm looking for a 1st gen so that's very important to me).

* Fuel mileage.

* Power.



Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[PRout]

I have to really question some of the MPG claims on these sites.



My truck has never seen over 20 mpg (calculated). It gets 18.



My wife's 2003 TDI Jetta has never seen 54 MPG's. It gets 40.



I think there is some wishful thinking going on around here.

 

[OnlyCummins]

Shortshift,



Is your trux fuel mileage corrected for tire size? If not, & the stock tire size was 245/75R16 then there's an ~7. 5% difference in tire diameters which means your calculated fuel mileage & indicated speed will be off by approx that amount. For example, your 18mpg x 1. 075 = ~19. 35mpg. Quite close to 20mpg. The difference for 255/85R16's is ~8. 5%. FWIW, I've checked this rough rule of thumb calculations with a GPS & the #'s are within a few 10ths of those calculated.



Having said that, I was under the impression that the older trux got better fuel mileage. Especially the 1st gens.

 

[PRout]

Thanks for the reply OC,



Actually, yes, that is using about 9% correction factor. But after reading alot of posts on mileage, it looks like im about where most trucks are w/ a similar setup.

 

[wcaldwell]

I know that I can leave Belen, NM (30 miles south of Albuquerque) on a full tank, going south and then east through Vaughn, south to Roswell, south-east thru Hobbs, east to & thru LaMesa, TX & on to Snyder, south down to Sweetwater and east over to Ranger - 591 miles on 29 - 30 gallons on my way to Arlington. I've done that 4 or 5 times. That's with a 3. 55 rear and 265s running cruise control at 2000 rpm & showing about 71 mph on the clock.



Wayne