Best Injectors

[Big Don]

Guys, I will have to say, the Ol BLues are the best injector I have ran in a first gen truck. As for towing, I towed last weekend with mine again. I have installed a GV 2 speed behind my 5 speed and have 3. 54 gears. I towed a 26 foot gooseneck with a 5,000# tractor on it probably towing total of @ 9-10,000# and my truck would run double overdrive (5th gear high side on the 2 speed) ran about 70-75 mph up hill and ocassionally would drop back into 5th gear due to slower traffic, so needless to say, I am very impressed with the injectors, power of the engine (it has 180,000 miles on it) and the old getrag and original clutch is still holding in there. EGT's are not really an issue unless you are just dogging the truck while loaded, by dogging, I mean tryint to run 80-90mph up hill in a 55mph zone while towing 14,000#. I've done it just to see if she'd get hot and she will (backed out of her at 1250 while still gaining speed). Would not recommend this, but had to see for myself. So yes, they will create heat, but you are already in the danger zone by the time she gets hot.





later

Don

 

[AlK]

I am running with the Bosh/PW injectors at the present time and have had the pump set at 1. 4. The truck runs well and have some smoke WOT. Two questions with the Lucas injectors (an extra 20+ Hp at RW ), should the pump timing have to be changed from 1. 4? and would there be an increase in smoke?

---

Al

 

[R.E. Miller]

Timing

Joe Soot or Power Wagon made a huge post here regarding this issue. It makes sense to me to advance the timing when you are increasing performance. I would suggest searching for that post, but in short you need to consider the following. If you are adding more fuel, and more boost in a shorter period of time, it would make sense to advance the timing because everything is happening sooner. Also, advancing the timing seems to be an accepted practice here, as to how far seems to be a form of magic 1. 4 should be a good thing... . any one else?

Russell

 

[KEENO]

Just remember though... With injectors capable of delivering a larger volume of fuel over a shorter period of time... that more heat is available during combustion = more power. Even w/ the std timimg more power will be achieved.



The intercooled First Generation truck do seem to enjoy 1. 35mm to 1. 40mm of pump timing.



Just an involuntary KEENO 'Brain Fart'!



KEENO



I wish the "Ole Blue" specials/Lucas were around before I went the BD route.

 

[Big Don]

I agree that timing should be set to 1. 40-1. 50 targeting 1. 45 on the first gen trucks. The factory intercooled trucks were retarded from the factory. They were set to @ 1. 25. Advancing timing is a good thing to help performance with other upgrades.



later

Don

 

[Lil' Dog]

Timing Again.....

OK, I have asked this before, but, the mechanic I use sets the timing using degrees of crank rotation. I have asked this alot before so, please excuse me.



What does 1. 4 MM transfer to in degrees????? 10, 11, or 12.



Piers? BD Reps? PowerWagon? Big Don??



#ad




J-eh

 

[EOliver]

Big Don,



Is it a good idea to advance timing on an intercooled truck before any injector mods or turbine housings? Just curious if I should advance timing before I do anything else and see what it gets me?



Thanks!

 

[DJP]

I purchased the Banks Intercooler and the 'Ol Blue Specials from Big Don a little less than a year ago, and I believe this is the best investment I made for this old Ram. The power comes on strong in the mid rpm range when you mash the pedal to the floor, and a plume of black smoke blows about four feet to the right out of the tail pipe. It's a beautiful sight, and I no longer have a problem with vehicles following too close behind me anymore!

I recently moved - again, and when I was towing my cargo trailer (approx. 8,000 lbs loaded), I didn't have any problems with high EGT unless I carelessly kept my foot mashed to the floor on the steep grades. I will admit, when I accelerated hard (when loaded), the old Getrag growled very loudly in protest, louder than any noise the cummins made.

I never did get my injector pump timed, but I feel with anymore power, I'm just asking for trouble when I'm pushing 220K mi on this old truck.

 

[Big Don]

Eric O. ,



I would definitely recommend advancing the timing to @ 1. 4-1. 45 on your truck. It is currently set at 1. 25. I think the timing was retarded along with the addition of the intercoolers to meet emissions.



Don Potvin, glad to hear from you. You still runnin' that Ol 89???? Man, when you gonna get a new truck. I know you make all the money and still drive that ol' slow diesel truck???? (me tellin' you what alot of folks tell me till they see her run).





later

Don

 

[Power Wagon]

Whether you change injectors or not, you can benefit from advancing the timing. I've been told it decreases your EGT as well, but have no proof or experience one way or the other.



It always was my goal where I worked, to improve performance without significant smoke. While this might seem odd to you, it is what my employer was after, since we had no interest in having the clear air agencies knocking at our door.



Excessive advance will result in rather poor response and black smoke at low speed, not to mention it's hard on the engine. However, I've been told by those who tried, that on the early engines (no intercooler), you can run clear up to 1. 7 and the engines respond to it well. I can understand why, since some of the industrial engines are timed clear up to 2. 1 or so.



Pier's experience of 28 rwhp I'll have to defer to, since I assume that's dyno-proven. However, I have to tell you, it sure feels like more than that, especially when you do the timing, injectors, 12 or 14 turbo housing, exhaust and K&N all at once. Remember, with the larger injectors, you CAN turn up the fuel screw some, and run faster without as much stress on your injection pump.



Also, be sure you check the stop pin position or use a method of determining TDC that's certain when setting your pump timing. The pin is not all that accurately set at the factory.

 

[DJP]

Big Don



I thought about getting a newer truck, but I think it's going to take me a little more time get used to the look of the new 2002 Rams. Besides, my ex wife and lawyer got my most of my new truck money. Anyway, this old truck has been real good to me, and I don't think I could ever trade her in for a younger one.

I have a lot of fun with this old truck since I installed the intercooler and the injectors. It surprises the hell out of a lot of people at the stoplights when the light turns green, and I launch this three ton beast off the line and leave them in a cloud of black smoke.

 

[Big Don]

That's the way we like it. I always win the race. Either I am quicker than my opponent or they can't see for the smoke, not sure which it is. I love to be in the left hand lane and watch a newer Dodge or a powerstroke disappear in a cloud of smoke.



later

Don

 

[DJP]

Big Don,



Ah yes! the left lane always works much more effectively when blowing a diesel fart in the face of your opponent. I believe I did this to someone in an F150 Lightning (he had the window down) this past weekend. Everytime I drive this truck, I ask myself why I didn't do the upgrades a long time ago. I guess I never knew what I was missing

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by AlK

I am running with the Bosh/PW injectors at the present time and have had the pump set at 1. 4. The truck runs well and have some smoke WOT. Two questions with the Lucas injectors (an extra 20+ Hp at RW ), should the pump timing have to be changed from 1. 4? and would there be an increase in smoke?

---

Al

We've met, haven't we?



I seem to recall visiting with you at a mall parking lot, right?

 

[AlK]

Hi Mark,

Sorry, but other than on this board, I have never had the privilege of meeting you in person.

---

Al

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

I am also thinking about getting a set of lucus injectors, but I am worried about how to figure out the timing and what about fuel milage ? I am now getting around 18mph on aveage(round town/highway) and about 15mph towing a 29' 5th and 16' boat together. I currently can light up the tires at around 35mph in 4th gear by flooring it(my new set of Goodyear ATS with 600 miles on them are cupped to prove it ). Would the old blues give me better milage as well as MORE POWER ?

 

[J DeMaio]

Hey guys:



I feel that I have a pretty good question here How are the 1994-1998 injectors compared to ours, size/power for the 160 horsepower pumps? Will the 2 nd generation injectors fit into our trucks? Just wondering, this could also be a cheap way vs. buying new performance ones.



Thanks,

John

 

[Matt S]

With the mods to my truck I have seen 22 mpg not towing (5 different tanks) and 19 mpg towing my ski boat. I was getting 20 and 18 respectively. I do notice that I see a larger swing in my mpg from city driving.

 

[DJP]

Power Wagon,



I never did time my injector pump the last time I installed it, after the pump was overhauled. I used the TDC plunger and aligned the marks on the pump housing to the pump mount pad. I realize this is a shade tree mechanic way of installing an injector pump, but it runs well and I'm seeing the 22 MPG (empty) that Matt S has attested to with the Lucas injectors. I realize I am probably not seeing the full benefit of the potential performance available with the 'Ol Blue specials since I never timed the pump. I would like to purchase the equipment necessary to time the injector pump, and locate true TDC. Do you have any tips for me on where to purchase the equipment? Can a dial indicator be adapted to work as a timing tool? Any informatiom you can give me on this is greatly appreciated.

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by J DeMaio

Hey guys:



I feel that I have a pretty good question here How are the 1994-1998 injectors compared to ours, size/power for the 160 horsepower pumps? Will the 2 nd generation injectors fit into our trucks? Just wondering, this could also be a cheap way vs. buying new performance ones.



Thanks,

John

*ALL* of the injectors from the P7100 equipped engines range from a LOT to a little less fuel flow compared to the stock injectors in the 91-93 trucks. The reason for this, is that the P7100 can make a LOT more pressure, and generate much higher peak injection pressures. Those are good for economy and especially good for emissions reductions, but the only ones I could ever consider using are the 215HP injectors, and that ONLY for a high altitude engine - as far as 1st gen engines go. They have an exceptionally good pattern and fuel distribution, which would help reduce smoke for you high-country types, although your horsepower without a couple tweaks on the pump maybe reduced a little bit.



Unfortunately, there aren't any cheap and readily available injectors that will "improve" your performance, although I suspect that 300 or 370 HP nozzle tips might do something for you in the performance arena. But they aren't cheap. You're better off with the Bosch or Lucas new injectors everyone's putting in.