Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Best lift pump fix? beyond pusher??

[merryman]

I know we have had a huge number of lift pump posts-----I have just spent several days reading everyone I could locate, and I have been like a pup after its tail for days trying to decide which lift pump fix to do---beyond the pusher pump that is.



I added a pusher at 20K miles, and when the OEM failed at 64K miles, I was stranded as the pusher could not supply fuel through the OEM with the type failure I had--by pass valve I believe. When Rod Snaith of Wildcat Diesel tore down 11 failed pumps, he found theby-pass valve the point of failure in 8 of them.



I want a "fix" that will minimize the likelyhood of being stranded as I was at 5:20 AM and miles from no where, and one that does not involve replacing an OEM two feet from 60 MPH traffic in 25 miles of wing and a driving rain storm! Where I live most roads are two lane, narrow, winding and the rain will start anyday now and continue untill May!!!(well almost)



So, I am very eager to hear what other members, especially those who have experimented with fuel fixes, think is the ideal

fix(s) for this problem.



My "today" idea is a dual pump system with shut offs so that I can run on either system simply by turning valves and fuses.

What do you fuel system gurus think is the "BEST" fix or combination of fixes??

And thanks to guys like Ncostelo, Rod Snaith(at least I think I will do a flow improvement such a Rod suggests--come on Wildcat, respond to my e-mail inquiry!) Steve St. ,and others who have worked on this problem.

Thanks for the views



Vaughn

 

[EricBu12]

If you don't want a Pusher setup anymore then the only thing to do is go with a single good Pump back by the tank



1) Eliminalte the OEM Pump and plumb it straight to the Filter from the Line. Go with bigger line if you want... .



2) Get a good, Diesel Rated Pump that has a PSI of no more than 16 psi and 100-140 GPH. You may need to get a regulator on som models. get a Mechanical Adjustable one.



3) Mount the pump back by the tank on the frame with Rubber isolators and you should be set. Just run the wires for the OEM Pump back to the new Pump.

 

[rweis]

For the first main failure of the lp is the internal bypass. I'm installing a bypass regulator post lp to make sure the internal bypass never operates. It seems to be a high failure point, so don't let it operate in the first place.



The plan is to set the bypass at 12, or 13, or 14 psi. Have to see where my specific lp does bypass. I did most of the plumbing tonight and will finish it tommorrow.



The beauty of the bypass reg is when the VP demands more fuel in a high demand situations, and drops the fp psi below the bypass psi setting then the bypass closes and all the fuel goes to the VP.



I think a secondary benefit is the lp will operate with less head pressure and run easier with less stress.



The next main failure of the lp as I understand it is the nylon bushing fails. I put on a RACOR 690 and run Stanadyne Performance Formula. I want the very best possible fuel going into the lp. Clean, lubricated, water free, and heated if necessary. The Stanadyne is also for the VP in low demand situations so it has a lubrication coating other than fuel.



The last failure as I understand it is the lp motor failure. Carry a spare and make it easy to change or change to a gerator rebuildable and rebuild it every so often. I don't think you will know when the motor fails, so just be ready on the spot.



If you don't think these three approaches will cover all the lp failures, then I sure would like to know what it is.



Bob Weis



ps: I assume that you have the lp back by the tank and have changed the lines to AN-6 or AN-8 ,a minimum of line turns, and and use full flow fittings. If you don't then all the above is a moot point. Relocation comes before anything else.

 

[merryman]

Bob,

Would you please give us more detail on your by-pass set up---I have no mechanical training or experience (other than I can't seem to keep my hands off my truck) so I have trouble following some of this.

I have dismantled my failed lift pump, and still do not really understand the the by-pass. Today I took that part of the pump to pieces and found a square piece of metal in ahead of the ball--I had thought the ball was missing, but it was just jamed behind this little square---about as wide as the diameter of the ball and with two tiny holes in it??? Before tearing it apart, as I would push on the little piece of metal, it would get jamed crooked in the opening, so I suppose that was part of my problem, but I don't recall ever hearing about such a piece of metal being there??



I am interested in a by-pass and in opening up the fuel flow between pump and injector pump. I also have all the flexibility of a well weathered 2 X4 board so working in the area of the lift pump is a real joy.

Thanks for the help.



Vaughn





Vaughn

 

[RSnaith]

Originally posted by merryman

And thanks to guys like Ncostelo, Rod Snaith(at least I think I will do a flow improvement such a Rod suggests--come on Wildcat, respond to my e-mail inquiry!)

Hey Vaughn!



We're horribly behind in our email responses these days, sometimes by as much as 2 days (PMs on the forums could be a week, as we don't always get the time to visit as much as we'd like). I really apologize for this, but also don't hesitate to resend an email, just in case your first one gets lost in space. We do respond to everything we get.



On the fuel system side, our current yardstick is as follows:



320 BHP and under - high flow banjo bolts and factory lift in factory position. I think you can reasonably expect to get reliable service with this configuration. Keep an eye on pressures and should you see them start to drop a bit, tear the pump out and replace it before it leaves you stranded. Since we've been using the high flows, we haven't seen a pump die because of internal bypass failure, however we have seen a couple wear out at 150K, and couple more fail because of the bushing failure. With the number of installs we've done, this is a failure rate under 1%



320 BHP - 400 BHP - -8 lines and the factory lift in factory position. Normal result at 400 HP is around 8 - 10 PSI at wide open throttle (WOT). We've only been installing -8 lines for a year now, and have yet to have a lift pump failure. We've got a couple trucks up to 80K and 1 at 100K.



Over 400 BHP - definitely -8 lines, but on the pump we're a little stumped right now. PE was supposed to be ready to fly a month ago, but we haven't heard from them. We've got the FASS installed on a couple trucks and it appears to be working well, but I'd really prefer to keep the factory fuel filter and keep the pump mounted under the hood to protect it from the elements. I've got to place a call to the manufacturer and get his thoughts on underhood mounting. If they feel it would work, we'll likely start installing FASS on everything over 400 HP and keep gathering numbers.



As for an 'on the fly' switchable system, thats a good question. You could plumb a second pump in there, mounted on the frame rail where the current line bracket is. You want to periodically switch between pumps, just to ensure that it stays lubed up. I think you'd want to put in a manual line divider though, as the electrics aren't all that reliable. The more you use the electrics, the more reliable they are though. With a manual line divider, you would have to briefly crawl under the truck to switch between pumps.

 

[DSteinel]

I like the FASS system, I have only had it on my truck for about 4 mounths but it does a fine job , I seem to have plenty of fuel pressure( have not hooked up guage yet, I was told it would carry 20 psi at WOT) The pump is made for class 8 trucks and seems to be a very heavy duty unit. Does away with the stock LP completely as well as the fuel filter and banjos. It has it's own filters and also takes the air out of the fuel. Hope this helps

 

[RThompson]

I posted a long time ago about parallel pumps.

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33305

I am still interested in putting a backup system in place. I don't like breakdowns! And, worse than breakdowns, is taking the truck into a strange dealership for repairs. It seems like my pressure is slowly dropping. I may just change out the pump and carry the old pump as a back up spare. I filter all of fuel as it leaves the aux. tank with a 12 micron filter/water separator. Try to stay above 1/3 tank in the main tank.

Enough time has elapsed now, Dodge is never going to address the lift pump short comings on the 2nd gen trucks.

 

[Claw231]

Would this type of setup work, maybe add switches so as to determine which one pump worked. Would you also have to have valves to prevent fuel from being pushed through the non operational pump.



Thanks



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[dgvg81]

Fass System

I also have the FASS system. I have had it in place since the first of August. I am very pleased with it's performance. It holds 19-20 pounds of pressure at WOT. I understand that it can be adjusted for more pressure if I ever went hog wild with the Bombing. The filter is a easier to change than the orginal setup, when the time comes.