Best pyro drill location?

[tbrudder]

How about one of these?

#ad




http://www.ksavionics.com/products/94544-2295/datasheet_hexad2.asp



I'm not sure what one of these costs, but being an aviation application, I'm sure it's high. But I always liked the old-fashioned 'steam-gauges' like these, and being able to monitor simultaneous EGT or cylinder head temp for all six at once would be nice--looks cool, too.



And while I'm on the topic, anyone care to enlighten me as to why #6 is the hottest? Do they steadily increase from #1 back, or does it have something to do with the timing?



--Ty

 

[RustyJC]

Ty,



You can get digital or analog industrial-grade equivalents of the multi-channel pyrometer that would probably be less expensive. Companies like Gerhardt's and Ignition Service and Supply are distributors for the Altronic and other brands. They're used on our large engines.



Rusty

 

[y-knot]

Heck, be a little different... ... monitor everything... . both exhaust sides of the manifold, and them post turbo. Helle, you will naver so much to look at, you'll need a co-pilot. Glade I only have a 12V, much easier for me to monitor both pre/post turbo.

 

[MojaveJoe]

Once again you guys come through with some informative and interesting ideas.



For now Im thinking pre-turbo. When I get my e-brake it should have a fitting for the probe and I will have both options. Maybe by then they will have a gauge that can be switched between probes. May as well have the best of both worlds



I guess a call to BD is in order, just to make sure they will condone the pre-turbo install under their warranty. I will post their opinions later.



... and Tim... . that detailed article on installing a pyro sure would be nice to have



Thanks to all,

Joe

 

[willyslover]

no matter where you install... remember that the pipe thread is a taper thread and to much taping will open the taper to much for a constant friction/contact area to hold the fitting size [threads/hole/taper will be to big]. . hope that came out well

 

[Billy Diesel]

instructions

Try these



Actually, I believe it shows the dual setup... ... .



I did mine like this (only pre-turbo though) and also used a magnet and a wet/dry vac to get the shavings out.

 

[KatDiesel]

Well since the difference between pre turbo and post turbo temperture readings can vary by as much as 500° or more, placing the pyro post turbo and then "adding 300°" isn't always true, its just a guess. Years ago a member melted his engine because his post pyro said he was running 900° and 900° + 300° = 1200° is safe is what many people believe.

 

[d90boy]

Taken from the TST website:



Many people erroneously mount the pyro pickup after the turbo ignoring the heat energy removed by the turbo which can result in a temperature drop up to 500 degrees F. TST test results indicate about a 10 F degree drop for each psi of manifold boost, thus an engine running at 35 psi boost would have about a 350 F degree temperature drop such that the maximum temperature after the turbo should not exceed 950 F degrees.



It would seem that with a post turbo thermocouple you'd constantly have to be figuring what your true EGT is. I can think of a couple reasons the large trucks have it post turbo. The one i hear quoted most is if the thermocouple fails it goes harmlessly down the pipe instead of into a 100,000 rpm turbine. Another could be possibly weakening the exhaust manifold.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Here you go mojavejoe



Instructions



There is alot of information on that site and some very good pictures of gauges, incase you're not sure what you want. I used that site back when I was making my decisions on what to get.

 

[MojaveJoe]

Thanks again guys for all your input.





Especially that DIS site link that Tim just posted. Now there's some reading I will definitely do before I make any decisions about pyro installation. (tomorrow when Iam not tired)



Thanks to Will for his link too



Night all!

Joe

 

[MojaveJoe]

BD's position on Pre Turbo install

OK, here's what BD said when I asked about pre turbo installation... . "It's easy, and yes it would be covered under warranty. " but, No comment on leaving the bushing/adapter out of the install.



I don't think I was talking to 'the brightest porch light on the block', since I stumped him with a couple questions.



It sure is nice having a large knowlege base (like the TDR gang) to draw from when I need Real Help.



So there ya go. As promised, and for what it's worth... . BD's position on installng the XMonitor pre-turbo.



Joe

 

[MojaveJoe]

Update on 04 48RE Trans Temp wiring

10/6/03

For info on wiring an 04 48RE for trans temp, see post #8 entitled "BD's XMonitor tech says" on this thread:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=83079

 

[Jamie Attridge]

Here is my personal experience with Pre Post turbo pyro locations. I had mine post turbo and ran it a season before changing. Mine was reading about 800 WOT with my setup changed nothing except the pyro location and was pegging it at 1500 Degreese talk about an eye opener a turbo later I was back in business with those EGT's in check. I have raced snowcross and Ice Dragged for may years 250+ HP sleds and have always used a RacePak to read EGT's. This is IMO the best monitor in the business and its always mounted right in the manifold like we do in our trucks. You want to read the highest reading you can to prevent a meltdown. But you also have to read the temp in the correct spot in the flame coming from the cylinder to close or to far away moves your probe to a different spot in the flame. Making the temps cooler or hotter. The pre turbo for me seems to be the right spot in these trucks to properly monitor the EGT's. The 8's you guys are talking about may have the hot spot farther along then our trucks depending on the manifold and such.

 

[Mschevey]

I have avoided this topic up till now but will add my $0. 02. Sorry this may get long.



If the pyro is there to help you identify "system trouble" if and when it occurs, then the pre vs post is not the most important item. You will develop a feel for what is normal in a given situation, regardless of where the sensor is. (Running empty on level ground at XX mph is about XXX degrees. ) If then you notice that the temp seems to be higher OR lower than "normal " you can start looking for a problem. (This is one reason the Class 8 trucks use the cost saving location. ) This analogy would be to that of the coolant temperature gage (especially the ones that don't even have numbers only an area marked normal). The gage is only checked on occasion to make sure it is "normal" for the conditions.



If on the other hand you have an engine, that can reach piston melting temps at the drop of a flag. You need the gage to help control throttle position. This means the gage is actively part of the control system. The analogy to this would be the tachometer. The tach is monitored almost constantly during some situations to "PREVENT" possible damage.



As for class 8 trucks:

they are similar to ours in stock form they will not reach engine damaging exhaust temperatures, and therefor the pyro is there for diagnostic information only. A additional benefit of having the probe post turbo is that the gage can be used to monitor when the turbo is cooled to the point the engine can be turned off. Preventing damage to the bearings and seals.



My opinion: If the truck is almost stock, but the pickup where ever is practical. If the truck is modified and you need the pyro as a aid to CONTROL not just MONITOR temperatures, you should have at least 2 pyros. One in each half of the exhaust manifold (Pre-turbo).



Mike Schevey

 

[Agades]

blah blah blah



I would still like to see where to drill and tap for the egt probe on an 03 exhaust manifold (like the picture in the first post)

without reading a pi$$ & moan session for an hour



I will be mounting mine pre turbo and still dont know where to drill and tap



thank u turbo tim for the link but it shows a 2nd gen exh. man.



do we use the same measurement as the 2nd generation?





dont mean to get ornary but... ... ...

 

[Jamie Attridge]

Im pretty sure guys were in about the same location on the 03's You can give Rod at Wildcatdiesel a call me has one and has it installed.

 

[Agades]

Im sure you are right

I know rod and I know hes installed his and I can call him but Im sure hes on the phone enough these days

besides,

this thread may be somewhat misleading for those who use the TDR as their "bible"



just lookin out for the little guys



please dont take this personal

but we are dealing with very impressional people here

 

[MojaveJoe]

04 Pyro install pics

Here's where I ultimately installed my X-Monitor probe.

It may be identical to the 03 manifold. The probe ended up about 1/4" from the back side of the manifold, meaning it went all the way across the 4,5,6 port.



The hardest part was getting the drill and bit in position to drill straight in (cramped space). A right angle drill chuck, and short bit would have helped.



1st pic taken through right wheel well, where half the work was done.



2nd pic taken from front/top of engine.



Thanks to all for their help. It really made a differnece.



My pyro works great



Joe

 

[MojaveJoe]

Pic 2

 

[Agades]

thank U, mojave joe

excellent pics