Best Quality RV Manufacturers to Look For

[P&LBigRed]

Americanarv.com

Take a look...

 

[HBarlow]

The purchase price of a cheap tire is not all the information needed to make an informed purchase decision.

When I was transporting RVs six Michelins on a 2wd dually Dodge Ram purchased from SAM's Club cost less than $0. 15/mile or less than one and one half cents per mile. They routinely lasted over 100,000 miles.

 

[Mike Ellis]

I did an exhaustive amount of research on 5vers back in the 2003-2004 timeframe.

After I was able to get up and about, I haunted the local RV dealers and looked over every brand I could with a fine-toothed comb. One of the first things I noticed was that about 80% of the units out there are almost completely generic except for decals and how the interior was arranged. Particle board construction, flimsy staples, ridiculously cheap hardware, sloppy sealing and wiring. Out of those construction features, careful attention to sealing the seams and window / vent penetrations etc is the one that makes the biggest difference to the end user. If you have a leak, it is never good... but when your particle board begins to dissolve you are really screwed "Get the Sawzall, STAT!"

The best value for the buck that I found, with the most consistent construction quality, was the Arctic Fox line. Very impressive for the price. I came very close to buying one, but opted out after my 5ver / truck camper decision fell on the side of truck camper. For my purposes, I think I bought the best possible unit, but if I had bought the 5ver it would have been Arctic Fox.

If you do a search, in the earlier days of the TDR forum one of our forum members did some mods on his Arctic Fox and made some very good posts that show how they were constructed.

Two interesting points about the Arctic Fox, and RV's in general. All of the Arctic Fox units were once made at a single plant, but a few years ago they opened up a plant back east if I recall correctly. The reason that is interesting is that back in Indiana where a lot of RVs are made, the manufacturers are fairly close together and "share" a lot of the same workforce. I was told by multiple folks who have been involved in delivering rigs etc that quality has gone down a good bit at the more generic RV mfgs because they had gotten into the habit of using a lot of illegal alien labor. Guy X gets fired for incompetence at RV Company A, walks down the road to RV Company B, and continues his same sloppy work.

Accordingly, be very careful about assuming all rigs from manufacturer X are equally well built. From my direct inspection of new units, they can vary wildly even between "identical" units. Take the time to look 'em over closely before you buy - look in every nook and cranny. A good used unit is a far, FAR better deal than a shoddily built new one.

Also, count me in the "Didn't think I needed a generator but boy I love mine" group.

 

[Grizzly]

Mike, very good post. I also researched 5th wheels thoroughly and yes, for the money anything Northwood Mfg produces in their La Grande, Oregon Plant are excellent and are 4 star rated. I too have heard about problems with their plant in the East. I especially like the Arctic Fox. Having said that, I have one problem with Northwood Mfg. Problem is that they are still using China made ST tires. I spoke to many folks at Northwood trying to convince them to go with good USA LT tires. They feel China ST tires are better. In my opinion, they're wrong.



You can get a better 5er for much more money, which is the New Horizon, the only 5 star rated unit. Other excellent 4 star rated 5ers, which IMO are better than the Arctic Fox, are Hitchhiker and Excel, but they are much bigger, heavier and more expensive.



The best bang for the buck, if you're on a budget is Northwood Mfg's. Nash, which is still 4 star rated on the RV Consumer Group Guide.



See thier web site, Northwood Mfg.

 

[HBarlow]

Several interesting and useful posts above but most overlook a critical factor: frame and suspension components manufacturer!

Most of the Elkhart brands are now using Lippert frames and suspension which, in turn, uses Communist Chinese axles, springs, and brakes. I don't know what Artic Fox uses.

The older high quality brands like Teton, Travel Supreme, and Alfa used frames built in-house or built by quality suppliers and used Dexter running gear. Sadly, those once industry quality leaders were vanquished by the economic downturn.

In the HitchHiker brand (NuWa Industries, Inc. ) which I own, the top of the line Champagne uses the gold standard Young's frames and Dexter components. The entry level products, all HitchHiker II or recently renamed HitchHiker LS models, use Lippert frames and cheap Communist Chinese running gear. In the middle-priced line, HitchHiker Discover America, in 2007 when I bought mine the models were equally split between Young's frames and Dexter components and Lippert/Communist Chinese with the older "two digit" models being built on Young's frames.

A casual review of the HitchHiker Owner's forum indicates some of the HH II/HH LS models and some of the newer floorplans of DA models are having problems with broken welds on frames, broken springs, etc. That never happened with older HH II models when NuWa was still building them on Young's frames using Dexter components.

Much of the quality of an RV cannot be seen by looking at the exterior surface or interior features.

Some features like rounded molded fiberglass end caps and gel coat can be seen and also make a difference over time. Some of the lesser brands don't offer these features.

Ultimately, RV choice is a personal choice and the old adage always applies, "buyer beware. "

 

[Mike Ellis]

HBarlow, are any of the other current makers using non-Commie running gear? If so, it would be a great favor to me (and doubtless other red-white-and-blue blooded Americans ) if you could list a few. Your last post was great, I did not know they had shifted over their running gear suppliers :{

When I get around to buying a 5ver, it will have American running gear or I will be converting our Sundowner horse trailer. No Chinese axles if I can help it!!

 

[Grizzly]

Several interesting and useful posts above but most overlook a critical factor: frame and suspension components manufacturer!



Most of the Elkhart brands are now using Lippert frames and suspension which, in turn, uses Communist Chinese axles, springs, and brakes. I don't know what Artic Fox uses.



The older high quality brands like Teton, Travel Supreme, and Alfa used frames built in-house or built by quality suppliers and used Dexter running gear. Sadly, those once industry quality leaders were vanquished by the economic downturn.



In the HitchHiker brand (NuWa Industries, Inc. ) which I own, the top of the line Champagne uses the gold standard Young's frames and Dexter components. The entry level products, all HitchHiker II or recently renamed HitchHiker LS models, use Lippert frames and cheap Communist Chinese running gear. In the middle-priced line, HitchHiker Discover America, in 2007 when I bought mine the models were equally split between Young's frames and Dexter components and Lippert/Communist Chinese with the older "two digit" models being built on Young's frames.



A casual review of the HitchHiker Owner's forum indicates some of the HH II/HH LS models and some of the newer floorplans of DA models are having problems with broken welds on frames, broken springs, etc. That never happened with older HH II models when NuWa was still building them on Young's frames using Dexter components.



Much of the quality of an RV cannot be seen by looking at the exterior surface or interior features.



Some features like rounded molded fiberglass end caps and gel coat can be seen and also make a difference over time. Some of the lesser brands don't offer these features.



Ultimately, RV choice is a personal choice and the old adage always applies, "buyer beware. "

Harvey, When I ordered my 08 Arctic Fox 27' 5er, I was told that the Northwood Mfg. makes their own frames and they use Dexter axles. Nothing Chinese, except for the ST tires. Since I know some of the factory reps I call one today to confirm that they still make their own frames and that they use Dexter axles. They said that they are unique in that they are one of the few RV manufactures that do that and the frames are 12" I beams. He said that many RV manufactures use Lippert frames and components. I've been under my 5er and measured the frame and sure enough, 12" I beams. The frame work for the slide outs are also equally impressive. He also confirmed that they are still using China ST tires and said that they have had great success with them. I told him that I am still very disappointed in their choice of tires and that I switched mine out to the Michelin XPS Rib as soon as I brought it home.



The Nash TT and 5er have the same frame and axels. They also have the same high R value insulation. The biggest difference between the Nash and the Arctic Fox is that the Nash is wood frame and not as plush. The Nash is now using Fiberglass caps and siding. I believe that Desert Fox, a toy hauler, are the same as a Nash. I just don't enough about them, except that they are 3 to 4 star rated.



Arctic Fox, Nash and Desert Fox are still not a New horizon, Hitchhiker or Excel, but they don't cost as much.

 

[HBarlow]

Mike,

I don't know. Other owners may care to chime, hopefully with facts. To my knowledge there is only one American trailer running gear manufacturer and that is Dexter and Lippert doesn't install Dexter running gear as standard equipment.

As far as I know, Airstream, if they are still manufacturing trailers, still uses torsion axles and Dexter brakes and, as I stated in another post, HitchHiker Champagnes and some HitchHiker Discover American models are built on quality American made frames using Dexter running gear.

Another edit: I forgot to mention New Horizon and Excel. I know nothing about them but would guess that both those brands probably use quality frames and Dexter axles.

I suspect that all the Elkhart brands including Mobile Suites, as well as Artic Fox/Nash are using Lippert frames with Communist Chinese running gear.

ON EDIT: I stand corrected on Artic Fox/Nash units. Grizzly posted his post above only seconds before this one posted. It is good to know that Artic Fox/Nash uses good frames and American Dexter components. I think that makes them the only brand who does among the lower priced units.

I'd bet serious money that all Keystone, all Forest River, all Thor, and before their doors closed, all Fleetwood and Weekend Warrier trailers as well as all similar entry level trailers are being assembled with Lippert frames and Chinese axles, springs, and brakes unless optioned up with disc brakes. I pulled a lot of Jaycos and consider some of the more expensive ones good value units but don't know who builds their frames and running gear.

I have inspected a number of trailer frames stored outside trailer manufacturers waiting to be rolled in for a trailer body to be built on them. Lippert frames are not impressive! They LOOK flimsy and the ones I've seen were already showing signs of rust before the trailer body was added on.

If I was shopping for a travel trailer I would know who built the frame and running gear before I signed on the bottom line.

 

[Grizzly]

HBarlow, are any of the other current makers using non-Commie running gear? If so, it would be a great favor to me (and doubtless other red-white-and-blue blooded Americans ) if you could list a few. Your last post was great, I did not know they had shifted over their running gear suppliers :{



When I get around to buying a 5ver, it will have American running gear or I will be converting our Sundowner horse trailer. No Chinese axles if I can help it!!

Mike, you may want to check out Ken Lenger web site at Ken Lenger.



Ken was very active on TDR until maybe a year or so. He purchased a 27' Arctic Fox 5er in I believe 01. Ken did an exhaustive research on 5er's before he decided on AF. Ken is one of the best authorities on anything to do with RV's and trucks that I know of. If Ken buys something, you know it's going to be good because he does his homework. He would never buy something with Chinese cheap running gear. He has an email address on his web site. I'm sure he would be more then willing to communicate with you.



Harvey, I wouldn't say that Arctic Fox is a lower priced units. By the way Arctic has a C in the middle. There's nothing cheap about them. Granted, their not a Hitchhiker, Excel or a New Horizon, but they have quality components and the fit and finish is superb. I look at trailers in places most people never look at to check for missed staples and shoddy workmanship. I look deep inside all cabinets, in all storage areas, complete inspection under the trailer, and the roof. I see nothing lower price or cheap in an Arctic Fox or an Nash.

 

[Loren]

By the way Arctic has a C in the middle.



Granted, their not a Hitchhiker, Excel or a New Horizon, but they have quality components and the fit and finish is superb.

Be careful correcting other people’s grammar or spelling, Griz. By the way, you didn't mean "there", you meant "they're".



I try very hard to check the stuff that I post, previewing and proof-reading it at least once, but I still mess something up every so often. I remember being embarrassed once because I referred to my RV generator as producing 4000 kw. Naturally I had meant to say 4000 W, not KW. It was a good-natured ribbing, but I had it coming. I hope you take this in the same vein.



Loren

 

[Grizzly]

Loren, no I'm not at all offended by a little correction. I'm sure my writing leaves a lot to be desired. You know Engineers are the world's worst writers and spellers. I think it's because we tend to put more effort in math than english. Having said that, I still believe that "there" is the correct word for what I wanted to say.



I don't believe Harvey would be offended since he knows I have the highest respect for him and consider him a friend. It's just that in all the discussions I've had with him about Arctic Fox, he always leaves the C out. Many TDR members do likewise.

 

[HBarlow]

... ...

Harvey, I wouldn't say that Arctic Fox is a lower priced units. By the way Arctic has a C in the middle. There's nothing cheap about them. Granted, their not a Hitchhiker, Excel or a New Horizon, but they have quality components and the fit and finish is superb.

Grizzly,

Wrong on the first statement. In your sentence above, "Granted, their not a Hitchhiker" the word "their" was used improperly. The word their would correctly be used to indicate possession like if I referred to you and one other person who own Arctic Fox trailers I might say, "their Arctic Fox trailers" meaning both of you own Arctic Fox trailers.

In your sentence you were actually referring to Arctic Fox trailers saying granted, "they are" not a HitchHiker... ..... You could have shortened "they are" to the contraction, "they're. "

Right in the second sentence. I was not offended by your correction of my spelling of Arctic (got it right that time).

 

[DBoyd]

Here is an article I received from Good Sam about the RV companies that are out of business.



RV manufacturers that have recently gone out of business:



National RV

Travel Supreme

Teton Homes

Extreme RV

King of the Road

Travelaire

Western RV

Weekend Warrior

Ameri-Camp

Big Foot RV

Sunline Coach Company

Chinook/Trail Wagons

Alfa

Pilgrim International

Rag’n

Dolphin

Sun Valley Inc.





It sure is sad to see such news.

 

[Loren]

Loren, no I'm not at all offended by a little correction. I'm sure my writing leaves a lot to be desired. You know Engineers are the world's worst writers and spellers. I think it's because we tend to put more effort in math than english. Having said that, I still believe that "there" is the correct word for what I wanted to say.



I don't believe Harvey would be offended since he knows I have the highest respect for him and consider him a friend. It's just that in all the discussions I've had with him about Arctic Fox, he always leaves the C out. Many TDR members do likewise.

Grizzly,



See, I caught myself again. I misquoted you. What I meant to say was "their" is not the word you wanted. You wanted "they're".



This is what comes from trying to correct someone else's English. I should know better. I even proofread that post before submitting it, too.



Loren

 

[Grizzly]

Harvey and Loren, I stand corrected. Both of you are absolutely right, "they're" is correct.



DBoyd, It is sad that so many RV manufactures have gone belly up. Some good quality names on that list.

 

[HBarlow]

And now that we have completed our spelling and grammar lesson and I've learned how to spell Arctic correctly, probably to the annoyance of the original poster of this thread, whom I apologize to, the list of failed RV manufacturers is indeed a sad report on the RV industry that many of us have participated in and loved for many years.

Three on the list particularly sadden me. Teton and Travel Supreme manufactured outstanding fulltimer all-weather fifth wheels which set the industry standard IMO. Alfa, which had declined in recent years due to lack of proper quality control, once did also. Alfas were the only travel trailer I know of that used a residential basement mounted air conditioning system.

I never had the pleasure of owning a Teton but owned an excellent but well-used second hand Travel Supreme for five years. I bought it out of FL via RVTraderOnLine and pulled it for a year or two then lived in it as my home-away-from-home in IN and OR for the three years I was transporting. I spent many comfortable nights in that old fiver when it was zero degrees out and everything was covered with snow and ice in northern Indiana.

I pulled a lot of very heavy plush and beautiful Alfas when I was transporting and lots of Weekend Warriers as well. I pulled lots of cheapo lightweight WEWs that were like pulling a bag of groceries but also a few WEW fifth wheels that were probably 45' or longer. Heavy monsters! I drug one from the factory near Perris to Lubbock over the pass at Guadalupe Peak in far west Texas. That was some pull.

Any Friday or Sunday afternoon thousands of WEW toyboxes could be seen headed east or west, respectively, streaming out of LA for the sand dunes or back home. They were huge sellers on the west coast and were branching out up into Canada and all across the US until the fuel price crunch followed by the economic downturn killed them. Gross mismanagement by the owner killed them when things got tight. Someone told me the owner, Mark Warmoth, or something like that, who is probably a very sharp guy, let his spending get carried away with things like $50 million airplanes and toys too numerous to count.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted. I hope the good times return.

NuWa Industries, maker of the HitchHiker brand, shut down production for a few months but is now in the process of restarting production for 2010 models with a new business model. I believe that the HitchHiker Champagne now sits atop the RV industry as the absolute best and highest quality fiver made in regular production. Don't know about the custom made New Horizons. With the new pricing strategy alluded to but not yet announced by Mike Mitchell, NuWa CEO, the Champagne may be a top value also. I read some chatter by owners on the NuWa forum yesterday afternoon indicating that with the 2010 models NuWa will return all HitchHiker models to Youngs frames and Dexter running gear. I hope that is factually accurate.

On Edit: Oops, I completely forgot Newmar. They are primarily a motorhome manufacturer and although I have not heard that they are out of business do not know if the company is still producing fifth wheel travel trailers. They were building an exceptionally plush, exceptionally heavy, and exceptionally expensive fifth wheel. Their models are fully painted with high gloss automotive paint and the larger models are on tandem dual wheel axles. Really in the MDT/HDT class for tow vehicles but an outstanding unit for fulltimers, nonetheless.

 

[DBoyd]

HBarlow, an excellent commentary and good reading. I would imagine you have some interesting stories of transporting trailers. What did you use to pull the "heavies"?

Don

 

[HBarlow]

Yes, the three years I spent on the road as a transporter was a great adventure. It was tiring and there were lots of hardships but overall it was fun, exciting, and I earned a little money doing it.

For the first year I kept an old Willie Nelson CD cued up in the CD player and everytime I accepted a dispatch, hooked up, and started pulling out of the terminal lot I would reach over and hit selection 9 and listen to "On the Road Again, I can't wait to get ... ..... " I got a big smile everytime. It was great during the years when the RV industry was rolling and particularly for us old guys who had a pension and didn't need a job. It was just fun and extra money for us.

I owned an '06 Dodge Ram dually with full DTT 48RE automatic and 4. 10 gears at the time I was working for the transport company that hauled the heavy units. The engine was factory stock with a factory Jacobs Exhaust Brake and a set of DiPricol guages from Geno's. I put 230k miles on that Dodge in less than two years but it was a good one.

 

[JimLarsen]

For the last 3 weeks, I was in Portland Or. That made me fairly close to the Northwood Mfg. Plant. So since they are building my new 5th wheel, I ran over for the factory tour. Their man, Matt, showed me the operation. I will admit that I have not looked at any other trailer build plants, but was still very impressed with what I saw. They have their own trailer frame building station. Matt and I discussed the frames built by Lippert and problems they seemed to have industry wide. Many of their welders have been with them for years. The economy has hurt them in their production also. They have been slow, but are now picking up the pace of production again. The axles they will use in my unit, will in fact, be Dexters. The lumber, where used, is all demensional lumber. No particle board is used. Just plywood. They have their own cabinet shop on site. Many saw cuts are computer driven. Cabinets are jig built and screwed to the the floor and side walls. Adequit backing is added in the walls so that screws have a home when driven. Where the walls are formed and glued, water mist is added to keep the proper enviroment for the bonding of all the panels prior to the pressing of the wall unit. The window cut outs in the newly formed walls are also computer guided. Thus windows fit perfectly. I was introduced to the lady who will being doing some of my trailers interior work. She has been in the industry for 15 plus years. Some of that time was with the now gone Fleetwood Company. (Grizzly, the answer on tires, that I got, was lack of U. S. tire builders now. I did check prices for Michelin tires for the trailer and was quoted a price of about $125 a tire more, than the imports. My thought was, Northwood didn't want to have to a higher sale price on the trailers they sell. ) I was glad I toured the place, and do feel some comfort in my purchase choice at this time. Only time will tell now. I hope my thoughts, spelling, and English construction come across well enough to make this understandable. Jim

 

[Grizzly]

Jim, your summation was perfect and a very good rundown of Northwood Mfg's operation. You found out first hand the same things I have learned. Did he explain how they pressurize the cabin and run it through a rain tunnel to detect water leaks and heat escape? What did you think of the massive 12" I beam frame they produce in their plant?



I would still like to see them put good USA LT tires on all their units. I'd gladly pay the extra price.