Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) best turbo for mach 4's and no box?

[foolkiller]

whatta you think?



all the hubbub here at tdr about these mach 4 injectors has me sold. i don't tow often and when i do it's maybe a 18' boat or a single car flat bed... 8000lbs?



i'd like to go no box since i've been reading a lot about engine misses and hesitations with big injectors and just don't want to deal with it.



currently i have the hx35 and ... actually i'm not sure of the exhaust housing. i do know it's bigger than when i started. whatever banks gave me.



suggest away. you guys are teaching me a ton. i used to fiddle with the truck all the time. now i seem to just fiddle with this web site.



time to apply some knowledge.



jeff

 

[jgillott]

Dodgezilla hybrid with a 14cm wastegated housing would be my choice.

 

[rivercat]

You might be dissapointed with the 4s if no box. The power doesn't show till you tap the wire I'm told. don't get me wrong they feel good and drive decent but the numbers will be down till the wire is tapped.

 

[foolkiller]

oh yeah



obviously i'm looking for the best of both worlds... . quick spool and so on.



i'm reading about this aurora mst thingy from ats... . sounds like the shizz but i have two concerns:



1. any thing that chokes exhaut flow at idle may cause a longer cool down.

2. a spring mechanism in the vicinity of that kind of heat may lose its springyness quickly and not function properly.



i know a lot are happy with the dodgezilla ... . sounds over kill... . just the name? hows low end/lag with it?



jeff

 

[foolkiller]

rivercat



mabey just a fuel box? what are you using and is it tapped? are my worries of a box that causes misfires valid?



jeff

 

[PC12Driver]

i know a lot are happy with the dodgezilla ... . sounds over kill... . just the name? hows low end/lag with it?

I like my DZ/14 for hotrodding and running around empty. It's one of the largest HX40 compressors stuck on the front of an HX35 turbo. That way you can still use the smaller HX35 exhaust housings and keep some spoolup, but move a bunch of air through the compressor. At 40 psi you'll get quite a push. I'm at 460hp, and with the DZ/14 it takes a while to break 1350*. And with the proper fuel it will spool really quick.



But for towing or tooling around town it loses some of its magic. And it can get a bit smokey, too. A 12cm housing will help with the bottom end, but then you have a huge compressor tied to a tight housing which will put a bunch of stress on that little shaft. It's not a bad turbo, but it does seem to favor the top end performance, imo.



With that being said, about 2 hours ago I just ordered an HTB2 with a 12cm housing. Their turbos seem to be a bit more refined and can be pushed hard, and the wastegates are superior to the Holset version so you can run a tighter housing and keep the bottom end. As to how they actually perform, I'll find out in about a week. I do know of another member with an HTBG/12 that can run about 430hp and keep it under 1350* with great spoolup (which was important since his truck has a tight auto and big tires). And for me, the occasionall high speed blast is fun, but I'd rather have the bottom/mid range snap that you get with a tight turbo.

 

[rivercat]

I have yet to tap yet, yes my VP's still a cherry. I am running the special catcher and a generic timing box called a power puck. The shutter quits if I unhook it and let the special catcher provide low-end fuel and nothing else. I would run the Dzilla plenty of them used from people like you that started small and progressed. Not knocking the 4s they just don't provide much power alone.

 

[Jetpilot]

I would recommend the PS62... . You might also look into the "smarty" controller as a power adder. The PS62 has awsome bottum end and much better topend flow than a Dzilla can provide.



Doug

 

[foolkiller]

pc12



what is it about the htb2 that makes temps low with a 12cm housing?



otherwise thanks for the info... the small shaft issue is enough to scare me away from the dz

 

[ctd8999]

What turbo

Jeff, my choice would be a B1-2 spools well and would cool your 4's. Check my classifieds. Thanks Steve B.

 

[PC12Driver]

what is it about the htb2 that makes temps low with a 12cm housing?



otherwise thanks for the info... the small shaft issue is enough to scare me away from the dz

The key is that the 12cm housing will help make the temps low in the rpm range that I plan on using the turbo. Increasing the exhaust housing size doesn't lower egt's across the board; it will lower egts at high rpms and will probably increase egts in the low to mid range rpms.



There is less backpressure with a large housing, which helps lower egts when the engine is turning fast and moving a lot of air. But when the engine is running at "normal" rpms, the larger housings don't generate as much drive pressure for the turbo, which means less boost available. The smaller housing will drive the compressor harder and stuff more air into the engine at lower rpms. Basically, the housing size is what you adjust to "gear" the compressor to your needs.



I'm looking for best performance between 1700-2200 rpm. At that rpm range the 12cm housing isn't a choke point, so the 14cm housing would just waste drive pressure that I could be using for boost to keep egts cool while towing. And when empty the truck will be more responsive and will smoke less around town with the 12cm. For the rare occasion that I'm on 5x5 with the pedal on the floor I may see higher egts, but with the excellent wastegate on the HTB2 drive pressures aren't a concern (the HTB2 wastegates all six; a Holset 'gates only three, so the drive pressure and egts could be through the roof on the other three). So for my application the 12cm will probably keep my egts cooler which will give me more useable power.



As far as the DZ's shaft size, I haven't heard of one snapping yet. But I would imagine that if one were to let go it would be while accelerating heavy and on/off/on the throttle while shifting gears with a tight housing. It is a nice turbo for what it is, but there are plenty of other newer generation turbos out there (HTT, Phat Shaft, etc) that have a handful of advantages over the Holsets (as long as you don't mind changing the exhaust down pipe).

 

[Fishin Guide]

Yesterday, I had my truck in the configuration you spoke of.



M4's, no box, no catcher. I did have a boost fooler. With a PDR35-12 I could not get the temps to 1250. That's no load with an extra 400lbs of sand in the bed and climbing the steepest hill we have around here in OD at 60-65 mph. Put your foot to the floor, and it never got close to 1250.



Add the Catcher and it'll push way past 1500.



So, with an EZ and 4's I would run a PDR35-14. But that's just my preference. I prefer quick spool to big power and rarely put the pedal to the mat and leave it there.



Dave

 

[Double J]

With M4's, a Drag Comp, and a DZ you will certainly be pegging your pyro on hard pulls. I can peg the pyro with a Drag comp and M2's. With a just regular comp I can still see 1350 +/- 50 on a hard pull.

 

[zstroken]

HTB2 would be my choice. Industrial injection just raised the price on their chargers quite a bit. The HTB2's can be had for cheap if you know where to get them from. I am ordering mine today, last day for the $100 off.

 

[BradyWilliams]

RE: Phat Shaft 62, Super Phat Shaft 62 or a SPS64

These all would make a good fit for what you have or up to what you want to go to. If you need any help tuning your truck. Or advice were always there.

 

[Bob Wagner]

dodgezilla will flow plenty of air, max temps 1100F with catcher and Mach 4's





14cm wastegated housing

 

[zstroken]

WHich housing? Also depends on what your doing with it. If you do not drive aggressively(truck pull, drag race) then a dodgezilla would be ok. If you think you will end up with more or want to hot rod around I would go with an s300 based charger, they are much more durable than the holsets.

 

[foolkiller]

thanks folks... didn't log on for a couple days... but thanks for the info