Better Check that Air Filter!!!

[Treb]

I have a friend that works at Cummins and he sent me this picture. Evidently somebody didn't take good care of his air cleaner and this is the result. The engine came back to a dealer for high oil consumption and oil carryover. . . No wonder!!! This has to be the worst ring wear I have EVER seen.



If you use a K&N, make sure you maintain it very carefully! I'm sticking with the safe old fashioned fleetguard filters myself. . . Not worth the risk to me. . .



The two photos on top are a standard top ring. These are of the same type of ring. The one on top is just worn down to a nub!!!



Same with the pictures of the oil ring below. Same design ring, much less wear.

 

[4020Deere]

Are these rings from an engine out of a pickup or another application? I've seen engines "dusted" that were used in the construction industry that look similar. Usually the air filter fails and very abbrasive concrete dust from cutting concrete gets in the engine and does this kind of damage. I would find it hard to believe that this is from a pickup used for on-highway use. Did he indicate where it was from? This type of unusual and accelerated wear is only caused by a total failure of the air filter. I don;t know that I've ever seen one like this on a pickup. Also, this really doesn't have anything to do with what type (K&N, OEM, aftermarket) is used. As long as the filter doesn't get so clogged up with dirt & dust that it pails. This is usually seen in heavy construction (i. e. concrete cutting). As long as you check yours when you change the oil, you should be fine. Just don't "over-react" about using a K&N. They can fail just like any other brand of filter, if the get clogged up.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

Dusted !!

I would not be a bit suprised to see a dusted pickup engine. You would be amazed at the amount of highway dust that is on the interstates. Try running the western states for a while. I also stoped using a aftermarket oiled filter. I noticed dirt tracking on the inside of the airbox because of a poor edge seal. I have had no differnce in manifold pressure or egt's IMHO.

 

[4020Deere]

By the term 'dusted' I am talking about heavy, very abbrasive dust, such as seen when concrete is cut. Normal dust that is in the air is not nearly that abbrasive, and most pickups are not in that environment all the time. I've seen some pretty trashed looking equipment, that has been beat hard, but just about every engine I've seen that's dusted was from a heavy construction environment, and usually from a concrete operation. I know some pickups are used hard, but I still doubt that most would see anything that wear the rings like the pictures shown.

 

[JohnE]

I'm an Engineer with a transit bus OEM. WE don't have a high a rate as contruction equipment, but we do have a large amount of dusted engines. Mostly this is caused by poor PM and it is usually a poor seal on the filter or a loose air intake pipe or a bad aftermarket airfilter.



-john

 

[Bill Stockard]

JohnE,



Yes, I've seen it in heavy duty trucks too--all the same reasons you mentioned.



Bill

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

In the early '90s I was managing the West Coast overhaul facility for the company I was working for. We refurbished all types of on airport fueling equiptment up and including 10,000 gallon aircraft refuelers. We did everything except removing the tanks to install new wood between the tanks and frame.



We received a 10,000 KWDart from one of our sister stations for a refurb which included removal of the Detriot V6 and it's replacement with a DT466 Navistar (new in the crate) coupled to an Allison MT565 transmission. Note I tried to get them to use the C8. 3 Cummins but they would not. The job took several months to complete and the vehicle was shipped back to So. California.



About 5 months later their maint. manager called a said they were having problems with the engine so I sent one of my mechanics down to check it out. It seems as if they didn't like the power at load (fully loaded 100,000 lbs- not a typo). Top speed was only about 25mph and this engine was working fine in other rigs that we were using (comparing apples to apples). My mechanic found that to improve power they had removed all air filtration! It took almost 6 months in a moderately dusty area with no air filters to cause the same problem.



My first thought would be to look at the person responsible for maintaining that engine. It doesn't look as if they were doing their job.

 

[Treb]

Yep, it was a RAM

My buddy said it was a Chrysler field return with only 18,000 miles. Makes you wonder how you could do that much damage that quick in a RAM. Of course, maybe it was pulling construction equipment and somebody took the air filter off to get more horsepower like Bob's post above!



Or maybe some powdersmoke lover threw a handful of dust in the intake. . .

 

[rrl989]

Or maybe, the poor fitting K&N really is a POS.

 

[LarryB]

Yep, I've been told by lots of experts that thats exactly what mine should look like, because I run a K&N and like it!

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

I have run a K&N for over 120,000 miles and now have two so I just have to switch them at every other oil change. I know that the 1st Gen truck air box seals better than the 2nd Gen but I still do an oil analysis at each 6,000 mile change. To date my latest analysis looks as good as my first - I know my K&N works.

Happy trails

Bob

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

Another thought comes to mind - did it have an air filter in it at all? It wouldn't be the first new vehicle that came without one. I have personally seen a Ford Mustang and a Chev PU without an air filter at their first oil change. How about the turbo - that should be shot too.

Bob

 

[JohnE]

Bob;



Have you done any work with the DT530? That's the bigger brother of the DT466 and it really kicks butt. It is a real match for the ISC. Allison 565 is sweet, too.



The Detroit Diesel Series 40 is repackacked Navstar DT466 and DT530 engines. The DT530 is a heckuva better engine than the Series 50 IMHO.



All;



Cummins has many Dodges in the company motorpool that have beenbought back for one reason or another. Low power is a common complaint. Many complain that Cummins hasn't done a recall for the infamous killer dowel pin. That follows the typical Cummins logic I experience. We'll wait out and plan the warranty $ are less than a recall.



Go figure



-John

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Just pokin fun

4020 deere... Nice handle, I was raised on one and I will always remember Texas wheatfields in Aug at 110 degrees on it..... Bob Beauchaine... like that handle too, did Portland ever cloud up after X-mas... . I was there in Wilsonville for the holidays, so much nicer than here, but I have to come up in the summer to really get it.



Jim

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

JohnE

We got some of the last new in the crate DT466's - just before they went eletronic. The combination was perfect for the application we were using it in. With all that weight we never lost an Allison. They could not go over 25mph so the power was well matched. I didn't get into the larger Navistar engines.



JFulmer

They wanted to hold the Summer Olympics in Portland but couldn't get everything done in 1 day! You hit the nice weather if it wasn't raining in the winter. You are right yaall come see us in the summer - its fantastic here in the summer - right after the 4th. E-mail me before you come to town again - I would like to meet a fellow TDR member.



Happy Trails

Bob