While they do look better in person, what matters for me is that my wife likes the interior (I agree the cabinet color isn't my first pick). I am more interested in how its built, room for the toys and how well it tows.
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Better RV Brands?
- Thread starter DixonL
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While they do look better in person, what matters for me is that my wife likes the interior (I agree the cabinet color isn't my first pick). I am more interested in how its built, room for the toys and how well it tows.
Scott... I've owned two Alpenlite 5th wheels and currently own a 2006 Hitchhiker HH II LS (29. 5FKTG). Do as much research as you can. We were happy with our Alpenlites, but I will say that our HH is a much better RV. All NuWa Hitchhikers are true "four season" capable. They have done a lot of work on the insulation properties. I don't think any RV will do as well as a stick built house, but there are many HH owners, on their Forum, that have camped in weather well below freezing and have had good experience with them. Good luck in your search...
Bob
I see them on the road a lot but I don't know anything about them.
Bill
I see them on the road a lot but I don't know anything about them.
Bill
MoparBob,
Aside from the colors as I stated in an earlier post they appear to be a well built unit. I noticed on their website they offer 10 warranty on cabinet doors never seen that before. Wonder how long they have been around? I have noticed on their website you can do a virtual tour of a few floor plans. I do not like the huge window in the door too easy for thieves to break it and enter the coach. I also did notice the a/c unit has a few buttons on it and I do not see a wall mounted themostat, may seem picky but I would hate to think I have to adjust it by reaching to the ceiling. The R values are pretty much par for the course, floor plans are laid out well, big fridge is nice and it would be nice to see a self leveling system offered as an option. Something I did see I have not seen in other coaches is a Maytag residental gas oven and broiler with electronic controls and timers. They are also using the latest and greatest in interior wall board instead of Luan. Seems the SymaLITE wall board is moisture, rot and mildew resistant not to mention lighter and stronger as well.
Seems that they have done their home work on alot of the items that are standard equipment. Best thing would be to find a dealer near you and pick their brain for a while and get some contacts at the factory that you can talk to.
Aside from the colors as I stated in an earlier post they appear to be a well built unit. I noticed on their website they offer 10 warranty on cabinet doors never seen that before. Wonder how long they have been around? I have noticed on their website you can do a virtual tour of a few floor plans. I do not like the huge window in the door too easy for thieves to break it and enter the coach. I also did notice the a/c unit has a few buttons on it and I do not see a wall mounted themostat, may seem picky but I would hate to think I have to adjust it by reaching to the ceiling. The R values are pretty much par for the course, floor plans are laid out well, big fridge is nice and it would be nice to see a self leveling system offered as an option. Something I did see I have not seen in other coaches is a Maytag residental gas oven and broiler with electronic controls and timers. They are also using the latest and greatest in interior wall board instead of Luan. Seems the SymaLITE wall board is moisture, rot and mildew resistant not to mention lighter and stronger as well.
Seems that they have done their home work on alot of the items that are standard equipment. Best thing would be to find a dealer near you and pick their brain for a while and get some contacts at the factory that you can talk to.
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Thanks! You noted many of the same things I did. They also run Dexter axle components, are fairly light weight for their size and offer a third A/C option. I am so far liking what I see.
Anyone else have any experience with Open Range RV Products?
Bob
What is the price range, number of slide outs and length of the 5th wheels. Also check out the undercarriage.
Bill
What is the price range, number of slide outs and length of the 5th wheels. Also check out the undercarriage.
Bill
The ongoing discussion of Open Range trailers finally tempted me to look at their website.
Sorry guys, I have a very different opinion of Open Range. I don't see quality, I see surface glitz and glitter and intentionally vague descriptions of features and details.
A fifth wheel travel trailer cannot be both high quality and lightweight in the traditional sense. Quality materials add weight.
Quickly scanning the website I see six lug 16" wheels, top of the line fifth wheels have eight lug wheels to carry the weight.
I notice on the spec page they list tires as 16". What size are they and whey don't they list the size?
I could have missed it but I saw no mention of contruction methods, insulation, or R values. Aluminum framing is light in weight and won't rot in the case of a water leak but when trailer frames flex, as all of them do, aluminum joints and welds crack. Aluminum is typically used in side walls but I've never seen it used in floors. A glance suggested aluminum framing in walls, floors, end caps, and roof.
I didn't spend much time studying all the details but my initial impression is a start up RV company, new within the last year or two, not using tried and true methods common on older top quality RVs.
I wouldn't buy one.
Sorry guys, I have a very different opinion of Open Range. I don't see quality, I see surface glitz and glitter and intentionally vague descriptions of features and details.
A fifth wheel travel trailer cannot be both high quality and lightweight in the traditional sense. Quality materials add weight.
Quickly scanning the website I see six lug 16" wheels, top of the line fifth wheels have eight lug wheels to carry the weight.
I notice on the spec page they list tires as 16". What size are they and whey don't they list the size?
I could have missed it but I saw no mention of contruction methods, insulation, or R values. Aluminum framing is light in weight and won't rot in the case of a water leak but when trailer frames flex, as all of them do, aluminum joints and welds crack. Aluminum is typically used in side walls but I've never seen it used in floors. A glance suggested aluminum framing in walls, floors, end caps, and roof.
I didn't spend much time studying all the details but my initial impression is a start up RV company, new within the last year or two, not using tried and true methods common on older top quality RVs.
I wouldn't buy one.
Harvey,
I was not that impressed myself and the price for what they refer to as the residential is right up there with Carriage Cameo, Hitchhiker, Mobile/Select Suites and Newmar.
2010 Fifth Wheel Open Range Residential 398RLS
I was not that impressed myself and the price for what they refer to as the residential is right up there with Carriage Cameo, Hitchhiker, Mobile/Select Suites and Newmar.
2010 Fifth Wheel Open Range Residential 398RLS
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Maybe I am overlooking a few things, but here is what I found out about the Open Range and some of the issues brought to light so far...
I have attached a picture of the 8 lug 16" wheels... can't see the tire size but can see that they are an ST.
The website states "Four-Season Protection Package standard - up to R-39* Roof, R-38* Floor, R-9 Sidewalls - Included". I see they say "Up To" so I am sure that is not the R values for those entire areas. Double Pane windows are an option I would spec so maybe the trailer will have a decent overall insulation package for the price.
Here are a few other items concerning their construction that I noted and wouldn't mind some input on:
* 5-Sided welded aluminum superstructure (walls and floor) as HB noted
* 2" laminated high gloss automotive metallic finished exterior wall
* 5" roof truss rafters
* Enclosed underbelly
* Heated and enclosed holding tanks and dump values
* In-floor heated and enclosed insulated water lines
* Double insulated 1" thick radius baggage doors with continuous one-piece hinge and interior fasteners
* Oversized clean and clear heated exterior pass-thru storage
* Custom Dexter Wide Stance E-Z Lube™ axles and EZ Flex™ suspension
* SymaLITE™ interior wallboard
* Maple hardwood raised-panel glazed cabinet doors with hidden hinges and a 10-year warranty
* Winterizing siphon hose
* Under-mount spare tire and carrier
* High Performance Furnace
* Vented attic
* Insulated bedroom floor
* FlexFoil™ insulation in floor and ceiling
* 97% temperature reflective foil in slide floors
* Heated exterior-access Convenience Center for utilities
* Digital thermostat
I have attached a picture of the 8 lug 16" wheels... can't see the tire size but can see that they are an ST.
The website states "Four-Season Protection Package standard - up to R-39* Roof, R-38* Floor, R-9 Sidewalls - Included". I see they say "Up To" so I am sure that is not the R values for those entire areas. Double Pane windows are an option I would spec so maybe the trailer will have a decent overall insulation package for the price.
Here are a few other items concerning their construction that I noted and wouldn't mind some input on:
* 5-Sided welded aluminum superstructure (walls and floor) as HB noted
* 2" laminated high gloss automotive metallic finished exterior wall
* 5" roof truss rafters
* Enclosed underbelly
* Heated and enclosed holding tanks and dump values
* In-floor heated and enclosed insulated water lines
* Double insulated 1" thick radius baggage doors with continuous one-piece hinge and interior fasteners
* Oversized clean and clear heated exterior pass-thru storage
* Custom Dexter Wide Stance E-Z Lube™ axles and EZ Flex™ suspension
* SymaLITE™ interior wallboard
* Maple hardwood raised-panel glazed cabinet doors with hidden hinges and a 10-year warranty
* Winterizing siphon hose
* Under-mount spare tire and carrier
* High Performance Furnace
* Vented attic
* Insulated bedroom floor
* FlexFoil™ insulation in floor and ceiling
* 97% temperature reflective foil in slide floors
* Heated exterior-access Convenience Center for utilities
* Digital thermostat
The following questions/statements are not meant to be argumentative... just inquisitive and to spur further conversation.
I have only been researching the Toy Haulers and for those units I have found the pricing to be quite reasonable. The 398RLS is one of their most expensive units and about $25K to $30K more than the Toy Haulers I have seen for sale.
HB,
Do you know anything about the RVDA and their Quality awards? I do not know if any awards they present are worth anything more than marketing, but Open Range did receive the "Quality Circle Award" in 2009. Until someone can shed some light on this I will look at as a marketing deal only and not a true attestation of the quality of the company.
Agreed. Does this mean that they are not a good trailer for the price though? I am very aware (and even disheartened) by the fact that I cannot afford one of the top quality RVs out there so I am in the search of the "best compromise" and most bang for the buck. While this is a new company, the President (Randy Graber) has almost 30 years of work experience in the RV industry and was savvy enough to be able to start a new RV company in this economy. I hope that translates into at least a decent enough product to warrant consideration.
I have only been researching the Toy Haulers and for those units I have found the pricing to be quite reasonable. The 398RLS is one of their most expensive units and about $25K to $30K more than the Toy Haulers I have seen for sale.
HB,
Do you know anything about the RVDA and their Quality awards? I do not know if any awards they present are worth anything more than marketing, but Open Range did receive the "Quality Circle Award" in 2009. Until someone can shed some light on this I will look at as a marketing deal only and not a true attestation of the quality of the company.
Agreed. Does this mean that they are not a good trailer for the price though? I am very aware (and even disheartened) by the fact that I cannot afford one of the top quality RVs out there so I am in the search of the "best compromise" and most bang for the buck. While this is a new company, the President (Randy Graber) has almost 30 years of work experience in the RV industry and was savvy enough to be able to start a new RV company in this economy. I hope that translates into at least a decent enough product to warrant consideration.
A product's high price does not necessarily indicate a good product.
The RVDA is an organization of dealers. I've never read their charter but I think it is reasonable to assume that the organization exists for the benefit of dealers. I don't know what the criteria is for RVDA awards but I would guess it is about highlighting products for the purpose of improving sales. I don't know what companies or products they have recognized with awards in the past but I have not heard of them granting awards to Teton, New Horizons, Newmar, Travel Supreme, Alfa, Carriage, Excel, or NuWa who definitely are or were quality manufacturers. Perhaps they have but who knows? The RVDA is not visible or important to most RV buyers.
I scanned Graber's resume also. He spent many years managing or selling in a dealership in Amarillo. His recent manufacturing experience has been at Keystone. I saw no connection with the premier brands or any suggestion that he was responsible or even involved with any well known quality products or any well known innovative designs or concepts. He has been employed in the RV industry. So what? His new product brochure tells me he is a slick salesman not an industry executive focused on quality, durability, resale value, customer loyalty, etc.
My lack of enthusiasm for the Open Range product is based on the skimpy information provided in their brochure ---six lug wheels on 39' or 40' trailers but more on the information the company did not provide such as frame dimensions and configuration, axle ratings, tire size, brake size, running gear manufacturer's name, electrical system current rating (30 amp or 50 amp?), construction materials and methods, roof covering material, side sheet material, insulation material, floor contruction, floor covering materials, window types, plumbing, carpet, draperies, furniture, kitchen and bath counters, sinks, cabinetry and lots of other. A ten year warranty on a cabinet door is trickery. How about mention of how the cabinets are constructed and a warranty on the cabinets? For comparison, spend some time looking at NuWa's (HitchHiker) website.
Buying a high quality toy box is very difficult to do simply because buyers who seek four seasons trailers suitable for full-time living and traveling generally don't buy toy haulers. People who buy toy haulers are looking for lower cost, weekend units they can use in the sand and dirt during summer months. The only high quality toy box built that I have knowledge of was built by Alfa and they were poor sellers because Alfa buyers didn't want one and toy box buyers couldn't afford or didn't want to pay Alfa's price. I think a couple of other high end manufacturers tried building toy haulers but found their buyers didn't want one and toy hauler buyers didn't either.
The approach to RV buying I used for many years and still recommend is to set your RV purchase budget and buy the best quality your budget allows. If your budget permits new, great. If your budget dictates used that's great also. Used RVs have already dumped all the instant depreciation that occurs in the first year or two of ownership. Good used ones priced right can be a huge bargain.
Look around and examine lots of trailers. Buy the cleanest, best maintained, latest model used unit manufactured by the best quality manufacturer you can find rather than a shiny new model built by a corner-cutting cheapo manufacturer. Shiny new glitz and glitter don't last. Quality lasts.
We are in a buyer's market for RVs and if you wait until later this year as the economy continues to slow and RV use by younger families slows after children return to school or better yet, next year when the economy tanks, good clean used RVs are and will be cheap and easy to buy if you have cash or good credit.
The RVDA is an organization of dealers. I've never read their charter but I think it is reasonable to assume that the organization exists for the benefit of dealers. I don't know what the criteria is for RVDA awards but I would guess it is about highlighting products for the purpose of improving sales. I don't know what companies or products they have recognized with awards in the past but I have not heard of them granting awards to Teton, New Horizons, Newmar, Travel Supreme, Alfa, Carriage, Excel, or NuWa who definitely are or were quality manufacturers. Perhaps they have but who knows? The RVDA is not visible or important to most RV buyers.
I scanned Graber's resume also. He spent many years managing or selling in a dealership in Amarillo. His recent manufacturing experience has been at Keystone. I saw no connection with the premier brands or any suggestion that he was responsible or even involved with any well known quality products or any well known innovative designs or concepts. He has been employed in the RV industry. So what? His new product brochure tells me he is a slick salesman not an industry executive focused on quality, durability, resale value, customer loyalty, etc.
My lack of enthusiasm for the Open Range product is based on the skimpy information provided in their brochure ---six lug wheels on 39' or 40' trailers but more on the information the company did not provide such as frame dimensions and configuration, axle ratings, tire size, brake size, running gear manufacturer's name, electrical system current rating (30 amp or 50 amp?), construction materials and methods, roof covering material, side sheet material, insulation material, floor contruction, floor covering materials, window types, plumbing, carpet, draperies, furniture, kitchen and bath counters, sinks, cabinetry and lots of other. A ten year warranty on a cabinet door is trickery. How about mention of how the cabinets are constructed and a warranty on the cabinets? For comparison, spend some time looking at NuWa's (HitchHiker) website.
Buying a high quality toy box is very difficult to do simply because buyers who seek four seasons trailers suitable for full-time living and traveling generally don't buy toy haulers. People who buy toy haulers are looking for lower cost, weekend units they can use in the sand and dirt during summer months. The only high quality toy box built that I have knowledge of was built by Alfa and they were poor sellers because Alfa buyers didn't want one and toy box buyers couldn't afford or didn't want to pay Alfa's price. I think a couple of other high end manufacturers tried building toy haulers but found their buyers didn't want one and toy hauler buyers didn't either.
The approach to RV buying I used for many years and still recommend is to set your RV purchase budget and buy the best quality your budget allows. If your budget permits new, great. If your budget dictates used that's great also. Used RVs have already dumped all the instant depreciation that occurs in the first year or two of ownership. Good used ones priced right can be a huge bargain.
Look around and examine lots of trailers. Buy the cleanest, best maintained, latest model used unit manufactured by the best quality manufacturer you can find rather than a shiny new model built by a corner-cutting cheapo manufacturer. Shiny new glitz and glitter don't last. Quality lasts.
We are in a buyer's market for RVs and if you wait until later this year as the economy continues to slow and RV use by younger families slows after children return to school or better yet, next year when the economy tanks, good clean used RVs are and will be cheap and easy to buy if you have cash or good credit.
That's a scary thought.People far, far smarterf and better educated than I am say it is without a doubt.
I won't get into politics so I will simply state the reasons why.
The large federal income tax cuts enacted by the previous administration were only temporary because of congress and will expire on January 1st 2011. That is the same as large tax increases on everyone who is working. Also, new and huge tax increases on individuals, small businesses, corporations, death taxes on estates, investment income, on healthcare, and more taxes will increase or start 1/1/2011.
All these new taxes beginning next year while the nation is in a deepening recession will be a major blow to the economy. Cap and trade will significantly increase the cost of energy to drive our cars/trucks. ship our products, heat our homes, light our homes, etc. Increasing regulation and restrictions on the business sector will drive more jobs overseas, restrict hiring, cause businesses to close, etc.
We are not living in good times.
I won't get into politics so I will simply state the reasons why.
The large federal income tax cuts enacted by the previous administration were only temporary because of congress and will expire on January 1st 2011. That is the same as large tax increases on everyone who is working. Also, new and huge tax increases on individuals, small businesses, corporations, death taxes on estates, investment income, on healthcare, and more taxes will increase or start 1/1/2011.
All these new taxes beginning next year while the nation is in a deepening recession will be a major blow to the economy. Cap and trade will significantly increase the cost of energy to drive our cars/trucks. ship our products, heat our homes, light our homes, etc. Increasing regulation and restrictions on the business sector will drive more jobs overseas, restrict hiring, cause businesses to close, etc.
We are not living in good times.
All I can find out is that this a new RV Manufacturing Company out of Shipshewana, Indiana. They are not listed nor rated in my RV Consumer Group yet.
george
Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. When I allow my mind to focus on where we are and where we are going it is depressing.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
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