Better RV Brands?

[JMDancoe]

RVTRKN: Thanks for the input again. I am still considering things, but with my situation being what it is, I am leaning toward the HR. How long have you had your Artic Fox and how does it work for you now? Are you a full time RV'er? Is it a 5th wheel? For storage reasons in the truck bed, I am going with a "bumper pull". Have heard good and bad both ways. My 86/92 Retro has 92 overload springs plus airbags in the rear and a 4500 lb. front suspension. The old girl is a pulling fool. Hope to see you out there. Will post a picture of my truck one of these days. Thanks again, Jim

____________________________________________________________________



: 86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

 

[RVTRKN]

Unfortunately it sits in Parker Arizona for storage, but it is a very well built unit and the frame is oversized in my opinion. It is a 5ver, and I love it, one thing about the Arctic Fox is they don't have the fancy crap in it to make it look better than it is. Just one look at the frame and other major components and you see the quality. The interior is well planed out, except for the narrow stairs leading to the bedroom. If your thinking is only a TT, then Nash is the TT division for Northwoods Manufacturing (Arctic Fox 5ver, Desert Fox toy hauler, and Nash travel trailer). I can't give an opinion on their newer products, but if the newer product is as well built as my 05 5ver, I would highly recommend them, I purchased it in 09.

 

[JMDancoe]

RVTRKN: Sorry to hear it is in storage and you're not out using it, but do know the Parker area to some extent as I was a Phoenix resident for approximately 40 years. At least there, it is dry and won't deteriorate. TT seems to be the best bet for our needs, so am probably going that route. I will ask my lady friend, "if" possibly she has access to any Nash units available the same way that the HR is. Thanks again and hope to see you out there one day.

____________________________________________________________________

: 86/92 Retro D-250, 5. 9 Cummins w/auto, 2wd - 254,000 / 96 Ram 1500 short bed, 318 w/auto, 4wd - 320,000 / 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4. 0 w/auto, 4wd - 200,000 Dodge/Chrystler all the way

 

[Grizzly]

Carriage goes under!

I received this Bulletin about Carriage from RVCG today;





E-Bulletin RV Consumer Group

E-Bulletin rv.org February 2012

Another RV company was officially absorbed

on February 24, 2012, when Redwood RV, a

division of corporate giant Thor Industries,

purchased at auction all the brand names and

intellectual property of former high-end fifth

wheel manufacturer Carriage Inc.

Carriage brands were much respected in the

industry during the company's 43-year

lifetime. Although the company was purchased

from its original owners by an investment

banker in 1999, it managed to stay afloat

under the new ownership until late 2011, when it

was claimed that Carriage was $5 million in arrears on

its bank loans.

Some in the RV industry have expressed regret that

the Carriage name has now fallen prey to the

corporate gobble. Since Redwood apparently

purchased only names and trademarks—although

actual fifth wheels in production were available—it

seems obvious that they plan to attach some of those

brand names to products of their own design, much

as Heartland, another of Thor's divisions, did with

the former Fleetwood Prowler and Wilderness names.

It's interesting that Don Emahiser, president of Thor

Redwood and Crossroads, was president of Carriage

until mid-2010 when he left to join the Thor companies.

Carriage RV Falls Prey to the Corporate Gobble

It's also interesting that Carriage's bank

refused management's offer to pay off their

debt, stating it was "too late”. The

company's owner never commented on the

unfolding drama. And Carriage's employees,

including management and design personnel,

jumped ship quickly, making a deal with

Evergreen RV—previously a competitor—

which appeared eager to take them on and

immediately made plans to use their expertise

to manufacture high-end fifth wheels,

expanding into a new plant.

If and when a Redwood Cameo, Carri-Lite, or Carriage

appears on the market, prospective buyers need to

keep in mind that these are Thor products, not Carriage

products with a proven history of quality. They should

be treated as new brands that will need to prove

themselves in the marketplace to gain acceptance by

the public. Will Carriage quality disappear? Will it be

found under Evergreen's Lifestyle Luxury RV division?

We'll have to wait and see.





Connie Gallant & RVCG Staff

 

[Austin Diesel]

Any news on a "Redwood" 5 er cant afford the mobile suites i want and most are heavy for my 2500 till i can upgrade have been looking at a used 2013 36re in perfect condition loaded out

trading in my smaller sabre 5th wheel for a 50 amp model and have to be cost conscious too


any help is appreciated

Karl

Austin diesel

 

[RVTRKN]

Contact Thor industries for info. http://www2.thorindustries.com/operating-entities I didn't see it in there list of brands.

 

[RVTRKN]

Try this. http://www.redwood-rv.com

 

[mhsmith57]

Hi Karl. My wife and I just recently bought a '16 Redwood 38RE 5th wheel for full-timing here in Arlington, TX. Our previous Heartland Bighorn 35RL can't compare. That was an okay "camping" RV but the Redwood is definitely a full timer's coach. We're already hitting sub freezing temps (<32 F) and it's warm and cozy with the electric fireplace and propane heat. One of the two AC's has a heat pump and that works down to 40+ degrees before you have to go to propane. Granted the DRV's are the Cadillacs of the industry right now, replacing Teton, but for the money, I don't think you can go wrong with the Redwood.
You're in Austin, it might be worth the drive to go see Mark Stewart at Explore USA, in Dallas (a Mesquite address), their sales manager. Good guy, no bs, and will treat you right. If you're serious, email me again, -- email address removed --, and I'll give you moor info. BTW, I towed this 41'5" 5er to our park with no problem with my '05 Dodge Cummins, 3.73, 6spd manual, Firestone airbags, and a little prayer. It towed great but if I were to travel, a dually would be the way to go. Good Luck Sir!
Mark

 

[AMink]

This is a timely thread that has been resurrected. My wife and I have been pouring through many, many articles and rv sites while deciding on a toy hauler. We currently have a Wildcat 29BHS bunkhouse bumper tow. Overall, it has been a good unit. I did have to replace the ALKO axles with Dexter Neverlube torsion axles due to a bent axle that couldn't be repaired. That caused a few blowouts. We USE our trailer. It's been up and down I5 to Washington at least 9 or 10 times, Death Valley x2, Zion x2, Yellowstone/Teton, Glacier, and numerous hunting/camping trips that require miles of questionable dirt roads.

All that said, we're looking for a shorter 5th wheel toy hauler. There are tons of used monster units but not many smaller ones. Since there has been a big shuffle in the industry during the lean years since this thread was started in 2010 does anyone have updated information on who's good, who's not? We're really liking the floorplan of the Forest River Sandstorm/Shockwave/Stealth family. I went over a Shockwave pretty carefully at a recent show and it seemed to be pretty solid. 16" tires, heavy axles, apparent good build quality and finish. It does have Lippert running gear and frame. I have read Lippert is crap and Dexter is the only way, but some of those threads are as old or older than this one. Is the Lippert/Dexter comparison still in favor of Dexter? Has Forest River come up in quality? As I said, our current Forest River product has been fairly solid. I can't imagine another brand standing up a whole lot better to what we do than it has.

I hate to buy new, and may not be able to due to price considerations, but finding what we're looking for used has been difficult. We like the Shockwave F28SAGDX and others in that size range.

 

[KenHwy61]

I believe Dexter is the better axle. I am also on Forest Rivers Forums and see a lot of Lippert component complaints. Also many of the trailers are built with parts used right at their load rating edge which contributes to the problem. Look closely at how much carrying capacity you have before you buy any trailer. Some have very little as in only a few hundred pounds. As far as Rv quality, Forest River is typical. I would look for quality materials in the build. The less wood/luan/particle board the better. They pump these trailers out very fast and QC is lacking so be prepared to do some "improving" on your own. From all I've read most dealers are very slow to do warranty work. After being told by my dealer it would be 8 weeks to be seen and after seeing the low quality of repair I opted to fix all my issues myself.

 

[toomeyddt]

Couple of comments based on full time trailer living for the last 9+ years....and "heavy" weekend camping for 50 years.

Started with 1997 Kit Sportsmaster "weekend trailer" 5ht wheel for the first 6.5 years. This trailer had been lived in full time for all but 1 year of its life until I got it. Even though they are easy to pull and would probably be pretty good for weekend camping, they are poorly made as are about 90% of the trailers/5th wheels available new or used. Must be willing to do a lot of maintenance - not good for full time.

Moved to used 2007 NuWa Discover America in early 2014. Excellent trailer - but they also have issues to watch out for. Mine had been shipped from the factory without two pieces of foam in the generator compartment that allowed massive cold air intrusion until I plugged it. THEN it was a 4 season trailer!! If you can find find a good used one from before they shut down, it will be a jewel and will serve you well - even if it takes some 'remodeling'. And their prices are rising because that is so... I don't know about their new built stuff - haven't tried one yet and wouldn't even think about them until I know who is building them for NuWa now. Did great for me until destroyed in a tornado on 6 May in Oklahoma City, along with about 65 other RV's. Sad face...

NuWa, Excel, Teton, old HR....any or all would be worth consideration for full timer after remodeling and would likely give much better service than any of the new ones you could buy.


Then to a 1995 Fleetwood. Absolute junk, as all Fleetwood stuff is, but was able to use it for a while. With these cheap trailers you can make a go of it IF you are willing to do all the rebuild on the fly that is necessary. I do that, 'cause I am cheap and cannot afford a DRV.

And now, back into the original 1997 Kit. Have been working on leaks at corners, replacing wood and interior panels. Reaches a point where ya just can't keep up. May have to just build my own trailer to get what I want in features and dependability!! OR find another Discover America!

Observation from watching hundreds of RV's come through the RV park for 9 years and talking to people. Open Road REALLY sucks!! See more delamination on those than most others. ALL trailers made now - most of the corner seals on both fiberglas wall and metal wall are very bad if they use the butyl tape - guaranteed to fail and leak in as short a time as one year! Watch closely and try to stay ahead of it...not if it will rot, but when it will rot.

Transmission work on the truck - Blumenthal's in Oklahoma City appears to have a national reputation and I have seen the results of their work. Very good. There have been probably 50 rigs come through to stay for days to week just to go there for work when needed. A handful of these come through and stay at the place every year, so get to see the rigs repeatedly. Couple of DRV, Teton, one NuWa, and a couple of cheap trailers, too. They also do engine work, but nobody I have talked to was there for engine. If even close to transmission work, it's good.

Dexter is excellent - I have several torsion axles on other trailers....work trailers.

Pulled all of mine with '99 Dodge Ram 2500, 5.9L, auto, quadcab, long bed, 330,000 mi. Still do... Have to slow a little on hills but not unreasonable.

 

[AMink]

Luckily, I have been able to fix everything that crapped out besides the axles. When I hunt by myself, the evenings consist of going around and tightening all the screws that come loose, pulling panels and cleaning behind them, making sure lights are tight, etc. Much of that I suppose would be necessary in most units that are subjected to dirt roads and lousy pavement. I have had a few problems with the heater though that is not necessarily a FR issue since it's the same heater that is found in thousands of other RV's, many higher end, and many lower end.

It is frustrating how we are quality control on these things. Any other company that slapped a product together like this would be out of business. I think they all figure if the other guy is cheaping out, so can we. Grr.

 

[Killgore]

It's my understanding that Lippert bought out Dexter's frame manufacturing facility. However, Lippert manufactures the frames to the RV manufacturer's specifications. And, if you have a frame issue about all you will get from Keystone is the run-around.

I have the unit in my signature and it has provided us with good service but it is treated with kid gloves; kept under a canopy when not in use, my own maintenance, slowing down on rough pavement, and proper policing of the grand-kids, lol. The furniture is cheap and will be replaced along with a good quality mattress. The fit and finish is average but not up to my personal standards. The running gear, (axles, suspension and brakes), are not satisfactory and I'm at the limit when fully loaded with the pin weight being the only safety factor in the calculations. The OEM 15" tires were replaced with Maxxis M-8008's with a TST-TPMS, admittedly, a compromise when I should have ramped up to a 16" wheel.

Would I make the same decisions if I had it to do all over again? Yes, I probably would because I got a racehorse deal and I've learned to live with the issues that occasionally arise. Am I a happy camper? No, I really take exception to a manufacturer who pushes out a hastily built product that is assembled without regard to quality control, good engineering practices, and marginal components. Am I a typical customer? Yes, and no, and that's the reason I treat it with kid-gloves because I know it's not a quality product and I want it to last as long as possible and still look good. It's not all negative: my wife and I have really had some fun being weekend campers and meeting some really fine folks, and we look forward to the day when we can hit the road full time.

- Ed

 

[RVTRKN]

AMink, try looking into Arctic Fox, they build their own frames and are high quality. They seem to be more luxurious in style with the newer units. We are very happy with ours, the wife likes the layout and I like the stronger frame, axles and massive storage. Northwoods MFG is only a couple of hours away from you, in La Grande Oregon.

 

[Grizzly]

Any news on a "Redwood" 5 er cant afford the mobile suites i want and most are heavy for my 2500 till i can upgrade have been looking at a used 2013 36re in perfect condition loaded out

trading in my smaller sabre 5th wheel for a 50 amp model and have to be cost conscious too


any help is appreciated

Karl

Austin diesel

Austin, you brought this old thread back to life. I think it's great.

george

 

[wyosteve]

Even with Arctic Fox you will have some issues. I have a 2006 Arctic Fox 24-5N fifth wheel. On the undercarriage to hold the insulation for the holding tanks, etc, they use pieces of what I'll call coated cardboard which is secured only with screws around the edges. Since the unit 'bounces' on pavement cracks, etc, the weight of the insulation causes the cardboard to sag and eventually pull away from the screws on the edges. Luckily I noticed mine before it collapsed completely. Fix was to get 2 in. wide pieces of aluminum and install in a grid pattern for support. Maybe not a huge deal, but after all the glowing reviews of Arctic Fox, I was very disappointed.

 

[RVTRKN]

Mine is an 05 (look at sig) and I have to do the same, but not the sagging, just the plastic cardboard pulling away from the screws. Any RV is going to need maintenance regardless of manufacture. My opinion of any RV starts with these in mind, (1)Chassis frame, (2)Axles/suspension, (3)Main skeletal frame work, (4)Quality of appliances, (5)Cabinetry. All the other crap is just fluff, that's why I like my Arctic Fox, no unnecessary crap making it look like a million bucks, just good functionality of layout and presentable interior.

BTW, I like the fact they used screws and not rivets, that allows me to modify it and rescrew back together.

 

[Grizzly]

We made a trip to Alaska in our 08 Arctic Fox 27-5L 5th wheel and our signature truck this past summer. We traveled some of the roughest roads you'd find anywhere, like the Top of the World Hwy from Whitehorse to Dawson City in the Yukon and the Taylor Hwy from Dawson City to Tok, Alaska. We never had any major issues with the 5er nor the Dodge. Many times when we'd stop for the night I'd have to tighten cabinet screws, screws on the ceiling fan and retighten the stabilizer jacks at the rear of the 5er. This was our third trip to Alaska with three different RV's. The Arctic Fox was the best. In 06 we made the same trip with the same truck and my 98, 11.5' Lance truck camper. We had major issues with the Domatic Fridge and loose screws. The first trip was in 1995 with my 95 Dodge 3500 DRW and my 1988 Holiday Rambler 5th wheel. We had major issues with the running gear and the 15" Goodyear tires. On the trip we replaced one axle, brake backing plate with all the hardware and two tires. I had the other axle and the other two tires replaced as soon as we got home.

george

 

[Jim W]

It's my understanding that Lippert bought out Dexter's frame manufacturing facility. However, Lippert manufactures the frames to the RV manufacturer's specifications. And, if you have a frame issue about all you will get from Keystone is the run-around.
- Ed

I can honestly say that is not the case with Forest River Manufacturing Corp.

When we were at the F.R.O.G. (Forest River Owners Group) rally last Aug 2015, in Goshen IN. I saw various trailers being worked on by Lippert and other sub-component manufactures at this rally, all of these repair where done for free. Some of these trailers being repaired were more than 8 year's old. Lippert was welding on a frame on a 1998 Cedar Creek and they replaced a couple of the stabilizers front legs on another unit. Axles and springs sets where also being replaced on a Cardinal along with the refrigerator and microwave oven on another unit. The unit next to me had all four wheel assemblies replaced because of a complaint on braking performance, the unit was a 2013 Cedar Creek Silver Back. You can get up to five items fixed at this international rally in Goshen IN. for free on any Forest River product. One unit a 2012 Cedar Creek Custom was taken back to the factory for service work, there where more than 10 items that needed to be fixed.

I also had some service work completed on my trailer for free and I even got another spare tire and wheel, do to a slow leak on this wheel assembly.

I know that these issue should have never arisen in the first place but stuff happens and items do need to be fixed. So at least Forest River is stepping up to help out their customers.

I use to own a 2010 318SAB Cougar, never again will I own another Keystone RV product.

Jim

 

[KenHwy61]

I have also heard lots of great things about the Forest River Indiana rally. I know an owner of the same trailer I have had the whole thing repainted out of warranty, at no charge, due to some paint peeling. Pretty incredible really. I have been very satisfied with my Aviator as far as the materials used go. It is all composite, aluminum, and fiberglass which means nothing to rot. I took the underbelly cover off at the start of winter and have been re-doing the plumbing, ductwork and electrical up to my standards. It is not something I had to do but factory workmanship leaves room for improvement and I want a trouble-free camper out on the road.