Better RV Brands?

[HBarlow]

We are looking to upgrade as soon as our place sells to go full timing. We have been looking for a couple of years and some of the fivers that we like are the Elite Suites, Hitch Hiker and we are leaning to the Carri Lite because of features and a decent dealer. The Torrey Pine is another one that we like. I am trying to get as much info as I can because I have to get it right as we won't be able afford a quick turnover if we get it wrong. A major concern for us is the true insulation values as we will have to spend some time in minus zero temperatures. As mentioned above frames are a major consideration. Friends have a big tri axle unit that has bells and whistles but if they are not parked absolutely perfect the slides will not operate plus they have a lot of slide alignment problems. To a large degree the old adage you get what you pay for holds true. That being said I find that a lot of RV sales people are like truck sales personnel, they don't know squat and cannot be trusted. I also watch the RV business reports etc. as I would like to get our unit from a company that is going to be in business after we buy.

Carriage's "Carri-Lite" is not a fulltime unit. It is an entry level model of a good manufacturer and although it "looks good" it is not well insulated.

I have a friend who owns one that is like-new although it probably nine or ten years old. For his own personal reasons he hasn't used it much in years but has told me several times it is not comfortable in cold weather.

The same goes for the low end model of any manufacturer. Common sense should tell us there is a reason why the lowest priced model is cheaper to buy than the premier models.

 

[HBarlow]

I can testify 100% steer clear of anything from Keystone! I bought mine brand new and that may end up being my saving grace when the war is done being fought over it. If I had it to do again, I would have got an Arctic Fox fiver, or possibly a Komfort. I would have to really look into the Komfort though. If I ever do end up getting another rv, it will not be a wood framed unit. This is part of the way the cheaper manufacturers make them cheaper. Wood is cheaper than aluminum.

Actually, the truth is some of the best units in the industry are or were manufactured with wood frames. Older Travel Supremes, Tetons, and others were wood framed. So were older Lance slide-ins. Advertising hype promulagated by the Elkhart RV manufacturers convinced the public that aluminum is better. It is not lighter, not better, just considered best by uninformed buyers.

Until 2010 NuWa built their premium line, the Champagne, using wood sidewall framing rather than aluminum by choice. For MY 2010 NuWa began building the Champagne with aluminum sidewalls to improve consistency, simplicity, and cost of manufacturing.

Wood wall framing provides better insulation and the attachment points of the framing members are less likely to suffer failure from flexing.

The problem is not wood wall framing but the materials and methods used. Hardwood framing properly used is superior. The lower cost manufacturers use cheap framing members of small dimensions, poorly cut and fitted, and attached with a staple here and there by a line assembler in a hurry using an air stapler. They claim that everything is carefully cut, fitted, glued and pressed together but close examination won't support their claims.

 

[HBarlow]

Well take heart Harvey, God willing when we are ready for our 5th wheel I 'd like to roll out your way and take you shopping, and then to a fine meal. LOL I am old enough to know where the wisdom in life comes from. Some folks get it from the book of hard knocks others ask questions.

I'd be happy to help a fellow TDR member shop for a good unit!

 

[DHayden]

Thanks Grizzly, much appreciated.

 

[Grizzly]

Actually, the truth is some of the best units in the industry are or were manufactured with wood frames. Older Travel Supremes, Tetons, and others were wood framed. So were older Lance slide-ins. Advertising hype promulagated by the Elkhart RV manufacturers convinced the public that aluminum is better. It is not lighter, not better, just considered best by uninformed buyers.



Until 2010 NuWa built their premium line, the Champagne, using wood sidewall framing rather than aluminum by choice. For MY 2010 NuWa began building the Champagne with aluminum sidewalls to improve consistency, simplicity, and cost of manufacturing.



Wood wall framing provides better insulation and the attachment points of the framing members are less likely to suffer failure from flexing.



The problem is not wood wall framing but the materials and methods used. Hardwood framing properly used is superior. The lower cost manufacturers use cheap framing members of small dimensions, poorly cut and fitted, and attached with a staple here and there by a line assembler in a hurry using an air stapler. They claim that everything is carefully cut, fitted, glued and pressed together but close examination won't support their claims.

I agree with wood framing getting a bad rap. If built right and sealed correctly wood framing can be a better structure.



My Arctic Fox is a aluminum frame because in about 2004 or so Northwood Mfg was pressured to go to aluminum because that was what the consumers wanted, not because it's better. Northwood had a problem with attaching walls and cabinets to aluminum studs, so they put wood inside the studs for better screw adherence. It does however, make the structure heavier than just aluminum framing.



george

 

[NIsaacs]

I don't know much about the quality of Travel Trailers, but one salesman told me recently that one way to tell quality from average is to look at the shower stall. He said the two piece stall means a lot of structure flex so they are two piece to keep from breaking. The one piece means a more solid unit, less flex. Sounded good... ... .



NICK

 

[Grizzly]

I don't know much about the quality of Travel Trailers, but one salesman told me recently that one way to tell quality from average is to look at the shower stall. He said the two piece stall means a lot of structure flex so they are two piece to keep from breaking. The one piece means a more solid unit, less flex. Sounded good... ... .



NICK

I wouldn't listen too much to an RV salesman. Most of them don't know their hole from an --- in the ground!



Number one quality is the running gear and tires.

 

[THoltz]

How about Sunnybrook or Weekend Warrior, Heartland road warrior (looks very nice and well built from pictures) these are toyhaulers but general fit and finish of comparable fifth wheels from the same company is fine.

Bristol Bay by Sunnybrook is 4 star rated. The ratings for value , reliability, and highway control is in the 80's on a 1-100 scale. Hearland ratings range from 2 - 3 star.



Other 4 star rated 5th wheels are certain models by Arctic Fox, Nash, Excel, Cameo, Brookside, Cypress, Escape, HitchHiker, Scamp, Torrey Pine, West Point.









Weekend Warrior is rated

 

[Troubleshooter]

I have had very good luck with a Crossroads fifth wheel. Very well built and great warranty service on the few things that needed it.



I had also looked at the Heartland, but did not care for the layout of the floor plan. Or the salesman, for that matter.

 

[Grizzly]

I have had very good luck with a Crossroads fifth wheel. Very well built and great warranty service on the few things that needed it.



I had also looked at the Heartland, but did not care for the layout of the floor plan. Or the salesman, for that matter.

Most CrossRoads fifth wheel are indeed 4 star rated in the RV Consumer Group guide.



By the way, THoltz, most Arctic Fox and Nash are also 4 star rated, in the RV Consumer Group guide, not just certain models as stated.

 

[ChrisOlson]

Hello



I have a 2000 forest river sierra sport f 26 toy hauler converted to a gooseneck hitch.



this thing is bullet proof, the axels are rated for 2500 lbs more than the Gross weight of the trailer very happy.

it is heavy duty tows like a dream and i found it on craigs list and only spent 7000 on it recently took it on a 12000 mile road trip not one major problem just a couple small things.

#ad




have a great day



chris olson

 

[HBarlow]

"Bullet proof" you say? With puny little 15" passenger car tires? Wait until you've loaded it and pulled it a few thousand miles.

 

[ArthurMiller]

I presently have a job as HBarlow had and have towed a lot of 5ers by Carriage if they have Moride in the axel and the pin they are a plus to tow, but are somewhat heaver than most and are abit pricey and are nice in side, most that I have known that have same are most well satisifide, however I am on my second Montana and love it, except insulation leaves something to be desired--it says on the side of it Artic Ins. would hate it if it were not in the rig. I think most are junk just depends on how much you want to pay for it.

 

[MJReynolds]

I've been looking at new trailers for that past year and really like the Northwood brands of Arctic Fox and Nash. Some of the other good brands mentioned are either too big or pricey for me so I haven't looked at them. I currently have a Keystone Outback and it's been okay but I have a problem with the front cap because they didn't caulk around the top of the marker lights. At this point it's mostly cosmetic but when it happened Keystone said tough luck the caulk must have come off and it was my fault. It was obvious that it had never been installed but they decided to blame me and therefore lose a customer. It's the way they treat their customers that has turned me off. They may make some decent RVs but their customer service is truly terrible. If you buy one just hope you get a good one because if you don't they won't help you at all.

I saw that Northwood bought up some of the old Fleetwood brands and they are now in charge of manufacturing them. The brands are Creekside, Timber Ridge, Tamarack Trail, and Wind River. Hopefully the Northwood quality transfers over to these brands. If you want to look at them they're at Outdoors RV Manufacturing .

 

[ChrisOlson]

Hello

I have a 2000 forest river sierra sport f 26 toy hauler converted to a gooseneck hitch.

this thing is bullet proof, the axels are rated for 2500 lbs more than the Gross weight of the trailer very happy.
it is heavy duty tows like a dream and i found it on craigs list and only spent 7000 on it recently took it on a 12000 mile road trip not one major problem just a couple small things.
#ad


have a great day

chris olson

Hello H barlow Maybe you should read the text first. Just finished earlier this year 12000 that is 12 thousand miles no blowouts. Yea I would say bullet proof and I was loaded 17560 lbs truck and trailer at a cat scale.

Have a nice day

Chris Olson

 

[Grizzly]

Chris Olson,



What Harvey is saying is that your Toy Hauler appears to have 15" tires and that means that they are ST tires, which are all made in China. ST tires are not made to last more than 3 years and most won't go anywhere that long. It's best to have LT tires, however you can not get them is 15". You must go with 16". However, if you have to stay with the 15" for one reason or another, at least go with half ton truck, or SUV passenger tires. Just about anything is better than ST, made in China tires.



I'm also surprised that you traveled 12K miles from Alaska to I assume the lower 48 with no major incident. Lets face it, no Forest River trailer is known for quality. In 1995 we made an 11K mile round trip to Alaska with my new 95 Dodge Cummins and my 88 Holiday Rambler Alumilite 5th wheel. I had big time problems with 15" tires and the running gear. The rest of the trailer was fine as was the truck. A trip across Canada can be treacherous to a trailer or a motorhome. Granted the Alcan Hyw is much improved from our trip in 95 to our last trip in 06. Did you have the running gear upgraded?



Chris, I mean no offence to you or your Toy Hauler 5er, but I am amazed.



george

 

[ChrisOlson]

"Bullet proof" you say? With puny little 15" passenger car tires? Wait until you've loaded it and pulled it a few thousand miles.

SO I will Apologize to Mr. Barlow for my rude reply to him this is unsolicited, I re read my post and I was Harsh So Mr. H Barlow I apologize to you for my cutting remark.

My post to the Quality of My toy Hauler RV was for the benifit of the OP my opnions or personal experience with a brand that served me well.

I still stand by my statement I did 12000 miles fully loaded with the above Toy hauler had one flat because of a screw in the tire, fixed an electrical connection on the truck to the brake wire on the trailer had the running gear inspected in FLA clean bill of health except for 1 hanger that was iffy i replaced it and replaced the regulator/ thermostat on the hot water heater. not one other problem with the running gear on the trailer. and for the record i drove half of those miles on 2 lane back country roads or secondary roads. the trailer kept me dry during the rain, warm when it was 15 below 0 cool when it was 100 degrees and pulled like a dream with the goosekneck hitch.

I spent far more money on the truck 99 ctd on that trip than the trailer.
evaporator
front wheel bearing seals.
front brakes
steering box
new borgensen steering shaft
and superlift leveling springs no more puck.

so if the forest river is the trailer trash of the rv brand(forest river not known for their quality) world then I fit right in. and I would buy another one just like it
7000 dollars no payments and yes I will still say bullet proof

as far as tires when I purchased the trailer I took it to a goodyear shop asked them to look at the tires the shop told me that they were the best trailer tire that good year made on the trailer and they would sell me more if i wanted but they said i did not need any more. Having said that I am not an idiot as Mr Barlow would have you believe and when it comes time for tire replacement i will up grade to the 16 inch tires and wheels simply because i do not do things half A&% I will also add a suspension up grade called dexter easy flex if Mr Barlow approves Please tell me if you think that is a good idea Mr Barlow because I do value your Opinion. Again I apologize for my hurtful remark in an earlier post

Have a great DAY

Chris
Low class forest river owner

 

[ChrisOlson]

Chris Olson,

What Harvey is saying is that your Toy Hauler appears to have 15" tires and that means that they are ST tires, which are all made in China. ST tires are not made to last more than 3 years and most won't go anywhere that long. It's best to have LT tires, however you can not get them is 15". You must go with 16". However, if you have to stay with the 15" for one reason or another, at least go with half ton truck, or SUV passenger tires. Just about anything is better than ST, made in China tires.

I'm also surprised that you traveled 12K miles from Alaska to I assume the lower 48 with no major incident. Lets face it, no Forest River trailer is known for quality. In 1995 we made an 11K mile round trip to Alaska with my new 95 Dodge Cummins and my 88 Holiday Rambler Alumilite 5th wheel. I had big time problems with 15" tires and the running gear. The rest of the trailer was fine as was the truck. A trip across Canada can be treacherous to a trailer or a motorhome. Granted the Alcan Hyw is much improved from our trip in 95 to our last trip in 06. Did you have the running gear upgraded?

Chris, I mean no offence to you or your Toy Hauler 5er, but I am amazed.

george

Grizzly or George

thank you for pointing out Mr Barlows concern as you can see I apologized on the forum.

No i did not drive the ALCAN this time I keep my Fiver stored in WA state now as I do most of my travels to FLA. in the winter.
and I do not like dealing with the border nazis on both side of the border!
having said that back to the trailer, the trailer gets used on secondary roads more than on freeway roads I choose the road less traveled. I have had the running gear inspected 2 times in the last 2 years both times Clean bill of health.
the trailer came with the best 15 inch tires that were out there see above post. I will up grade very soon to the 16 inch tires and wheels as well as dexter ez flex. Please do not be surprised that my equipment works I take very good care of anything I drive or pull or ride. from your post i would be hesitant to purchase a holiday rambler Aluminite fiver how ever I have no reason to get rid of my trailer but just 10 days ago a tree fell on the back of it here is a cell phone photo of it
#ad

the tree fell during a wind storm i was told the tree was 6 or 8 inches in diameter or so.
not sure how tall
#ad


So i am not sure about the quality of my forest river right now the Damage looks pretty severe.

I will keep you informed.

Thanks for all the input concerning my forest river low rent toy hauler.

so to the OP do not buy a forest river. you heard it here.

Have a great day.

Chris

 

[Grizzly]

Chris,



Very unfortunate to hear of your mishap. Guess it could happen to anyone of us. My 5er stays in an inclosed trailerport at home, however when it's out on a camping trip in the wooded Forest Service something like that could happen. Whenever something like that happens the quality of the trailer won't matter. I hope you have good insurance coverage.



The Holiday Rambler Alumilite 5th wheel was good trailer, however the most important parts were less than adequate, which was the 15" tires and the running gear. I bought the 5er new in 88 and kept it till 95 when I purchased a new Lance truck camper. The HR served me well for the most part, however it couldn't take the Alcan Hyw, which is the reason I bought the Lance camper. After our last trip to Alaska in the Lance we got a little claustrophobic after 2 months in it, so we purchased the new Arctic Fox 5th wheel. After months of research we purchased the strongest built trailer we could get at an affordable price. As soon as we got it home, I got rid of the 16" China ST tires and had 16" Michelin XPS Rib tires installed. We're happy with the Arctic Fox and hope to make many more trips to Alaska in it.



We tried to go into Juneau on our last trip to Alaska, but the catamaran was broke down and wouldn't be fixed for several more day. We could have flown in, but my wife didn't want to fly. We sure enjoyed Skagway however.



george

 

[ChrisOlson]

Grizzly
the ferrys can be very troublesome due to weather and mechanical issues that are prone to the JET BOATS or fast ferrys. I to am a lance camper fan I took mine up the Dalton Highway(HAUL road) and enjoyed a great time with my DW. on your next trip to ALASKA more importantly southeast Alaska PM me as I live 1 mile from the forest service camp ground in Juneau. My DW and I would love to entertain you for a meal.
and to close I would offer to the OP that the Nash product ie Arctic fox desert fox are excellent choices of RV and would be very high on my list to purchase if I were to purchase new. and of course to the OP factor the cost of new tires into your purchase price to replace those peske and puny 15 inch cheap tires that come with most trailers

Also check this site
Motorhome Magazine Open Roads Forum

this is a RV forum that is a wealth of RV knowledge probably more so than here on tdr
and that includes my self.

Good luck with your search

Chris