big oops found tonight

[MAshley]

And some more.....

Sorry im new to looking at engine parts, so without holes or melted metal im a little lost in what im looking at. Could someone point out what im suposed to be seeing as bad?



Thanks

 

[CStraface]

Ok, the owner came down this evening and looked over the damage. Apparently he said the issue began about a month ago while he was towing his cattle trailer across the state and hasn't driven the truck much since



The thermocouple was mounted directly in the path of the cylinder that burned up and he says the exhaust temps climbed to around 1550 degrees and he turned the water injection on to cool it down. After the water came on temps dropped to around 1300 degrees, but shortly afterward the truck started to run rough and smoke excessively. At that point in the game he had stock injectors and the BD Super B turbo on the truck.



When he got it home he sent the injectors out to be checked thinking that maybe one of them was going south. He got the new injectors in and noticed the rough idle was still there and that the truck was burning oil. He then checked the turbo and found that it was blowing oil into the innercooler.



So, he only had the stock charger on the truck long enough to get it to my place. That explains some of the things that I found on the truck. We will be yanking the engine the first of the week and we will go from there as to whether or not he will be going with a shortblock or rebuilding the existing one.

Can you explain the differences between "a shortblock and the existing one"????

 

[lmills]

Sorry im new to looking at engine parts, so without holes or melted metal im a little lost in what im looking at. Could someone point out what im suposed to be seeing as bad?



Thanks

Picture #1 at the top of them all shows the scuffing that is present in 5 out of 6 of the cylinders. The scuffing is from the pistons getting too hot and expanding causing the scuffing. Also most of the cylinders had lost most of the crosshatching.



Picture 2 just below that shows the burnt piston. The formation on the top of the piston is where it got so hot it melted it and deformed it.

 

[JRD]

A shortblock is a block from another 5. 9 complete with crank, pistons, rings and rods. The rest of the stuff, such as the head and other things you take off your old engine and put it on the new shortblock.



Rebuilding would be to pull the current engine, strip it down and install new pistons, adress the cylinder scoring issues an replace any other damaged internals.

 

[lmills]

Can you explain the differences between "a shortblock and the existing one"????

Shortblock is an assembled bottom end of an engine minus the head, turbo and pumps. Long block is a fully built engine from bottom to top. In other words we will either be looking for a replacement engine or rebuilding this one depending on cost and time.

 

[WPeschel]

Can you explain the differences between "a shortblock and the existing one"????

"Short block" is a term used to describe a rebuilt, or brand new block, bottom end with rotating assemb. , and pistons. you have to supply the head and other bolt on stuff like cp3, injectors, exhaust manifold, turbo etc etc. A "long block" is usually the block, bottom end, rotating assemb. , pistons, and the head... There is no difference in the engine size, make, or model. unless you order something different. .

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

Sorry im new to looking at engine parts, so without holes or melted metal im a little lost in what im looking at. Could someone point out what im suposed to be seeing as bad?



Thanks

Cylinders 3 & 4, especially 3, the pistons are melted.

Can you explain the differences between "a shortblock and the existing one"????

After the motor is pulled, they will determine whether to rebuild that one, or just buy a new shortblock, which is basically an already built block.

 

[Yo Hoot]

Looks like we got block length covered :-laf

 

[jwilliams3]

Those pictures only tell me one thing and that is: Someones gonna be shellin' out about $5-8k dollars to get up and going again.

 

[CStraface]

Just an excuse to the wife to build things the right way.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

The thermocouple was mounted directly in the path of the cylinder that burned up and he says the exhaust temps climbed to around 1550 degrees and he turned the water injection on to cool it down.

I wonder why he didn't back out of it long before it got that hot. Doesn't do much good to have gauges and not drive by them.

 

[MTomac]

28000 miles, the motor isn't even broke in yet

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

the motor isn't even broke in yet

Went directly past "broke in" to "broke" :-laf

 

[cojhl2]

The thermocouple was mounted directly in the path of the cylinder that burned up and he says the exhaust temps climbed to around 1550 degrees and he turned the water injection on to cool it down.

I wonder if water really does cool down the chamber,, I have two anecdotes that question that:



1)Years ago when I was in High School I had a 40 DeSoto fixed up with water injection. without water it would go 85 WOT. Turn the water on it would go 100. Turn the water off it would then slow down to 85 again.



Took the engine apart after some time cause it was using lots of oil and found all the pistons with the top corners burned off.



2)Friend of mine was a B17 Pilot in WWII. He told about turning the water on those big radials when taking off. He would get tears in his eyes as he explained those cylinders would "swell" with all that additional power.



But,,, he said you could only run water for a short time cause it was hard on the engine.



Now with both these examples,, how come we always think it cools the chambers down to run water. I don't get it. Hopefully someone can splainit.

 

[JasonCzerak]

Water

I can see how it makes things faster. As far as cooling down I'm confused.



Correct me if I'm outa the ball part here.



Water isn't compressible. When it's in the cylinder it takes up space creating more compression correct? Which would create more heat (melting things) while making more power, higher compression. If you have way to much water you can bend rods.



At what point in the 4 cycles does the water turn into a gas and work with or against the power cycle?



Does water act like an inner cooler or nitrous to cool the intake charge to cool things off?

 

[Yo Hoot]

Stacking boxes. Towing with Stacked boxes. Knowingly running over 1250F while towing with stacked boxes.



Towing cattle accross the state hitting 1550 degrees for how long? It's one thing to do short runs hitting high temps but it's the sustained over 1250 that did this motor in. How long did he run over 1500F before he realized it? When it started to run funny as the pistons expanded?

The thermocouple was mounted directly in the path of the cylinder that burned up and he says the exhaust temps climbed to around 1550 degrees and he turned the water injection on to cool it down. After the water came on temps dropped to around 1300 degrees, but shortly afterward the truck started to run rough and smoke excessively.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I replaced a motor in a truck last year after a bud of mine towed too heavy, too much EGT's for too long and swelled #6 enough to crack the sleeve. Odd thing is all the other pistons were fine except normal wear and still had the crosshatches.



I see pictures like these and it makes me thing it's the guys towing with other than stock trucks that are going to tear stuff up and not guys like us.



After recently having my head off and my truck seeing more crap thrown at it, high EGT's, Water/Meth, N2O) the only thing I can see is maybe the motor should be see up a little looser. I'm sure the next one I do will be set at say 4-5 thou clarence piston to wall.



Jim

 

[cojhl2]

I can see how it makes things faster. As far as cooling down I'm confused.

Me too Jason, hope someone can explain how this works. I know the knowledge is out there we just haven't poked them yet!

 

[cerberusiam]

I can see how it makes things faster. As far as cooling down I'm confused.



Correct me if I'm outa the ball part here.



Water isn't compressible. When it's in the cylinder it takes up space creating more compression correct? Which would create more heat (melting things) while making more power, higher compression. If you have way to much water you can bend rods.



At what point in the 4 cycles does the water turn into a gas and work with or against the power cycle?



Does water act like an inner cooler or nitrous to cool the intake charge to cool things off?

Water adds oxygen to the combution mix as it breaks down. This creates a denser charge which promotes more complete combustion at a lower temperature. As a side effect you also lower emissions and allow the ability to add more injection timing.



Water injecton into the intake stream is not as efficient as direct injection and can lead to some issues. It is usually injected thru a small orfice so the amount is not going to intefere with the compression process and cause a hydro lock but too much water in the wrong spot can lead to other issues. Here is a pretty good read on the benefits and possible problems.



http://homepages.cae.wisc.edu/~rutland/research.dir/NOx_water/2000-01-2938.pdf

 

[LUnderwood]

i hit 1500 plus and havent had problems! yall are messin with my head! Good thing im goin with twins! Wouldnt he have to hold 1500 for some time?