Bigfoot vs. Lance Campers

[Powder Extreme]

Hi all, it's time to upgrade my Northland camper to a new unit. I'm going to pick either a Lance or a Bigfoot 3000, both 11'. I would appreciate input on both, but especially the Bigfoot. I've seen several Lance's and they look like really good units. I'm leaning towards the Bigfoot because of the better insulation since I use it when I'm snowmobiling. What kind of mileage do you guys get with these campers? I get aprox. 12 with my 10. 5', really depends on the wind, I've gotten as high as 14. How many of you use yours in the winter? How has it worked out for you? My Northland is okay, but seems to be lacking in the insulation when it really gets cold.



Thanks,

Jerry



BTW I have a 1060 Northland Polar I will be selling soon

 

[Ramrod]

S and S

Have you considered S&S from Kalispell MT. They have been making slide ins for over 30 years. Thier slogan is "Built in the NorthWEST for the NorthWEST". i HAVE A 11db.



http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=1500602&a=12966000&p=48705090&f=0



tHIS IS THE CAMPER FROM WHEN i DROVE BACK TO nj FROM kALISPELL.



We have used it alot this summer and like it. We looked at campers for over 2 years. We were sold on Lance UNTIL we saw the S&S.



I think its worth your time to take a look.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Yes, I've looked at S&S, I was actually signing the papers to buy one last year when I realized the dealer wrote the deal out not as he told me. They look like very good units, the turn off for me though is the squared off front end. I know they make a slant front similar to a Lance, but when we looked at the Lance, we liked the layout better. Although the 11' slide S&S is very nice. I will be looking at the S&S again before I actually drop the 25g's for a camper. From looking at the construction the Bigfoot looks to be the strongest built.

What kind of mileage did you get hauling that camper home? Did the wind really affect you as well?

 

[WyoJim]

S&S

Jerry,

We bought our S&S while we lived in Bozeman. We ordered it through Pierce RV in Billings and picked it up in Kalispell. Have had it 4 years and it has never had to go back to the dealer. Wish we would have got the slant front end.



With the blunt front end I get between 13 and 14 mpg at 65 mph. Just made a trip to Bozeman with it a week ago and held it to 60mph. Got 15. 7 going and 16. 4 coming back.



We spent 5 nights in a row in it at around 20 below zero and the forced air furnace did fantastic. That was back in Penna. Sure am glad it don't get that cold out here, Hee Hee. Nothing froze up, I was surprised.

 

[Powder Extreme]

That's not bad mileage at all. So it seemed pretty well insulated? Were there any "cold" spots like inside the cupboards or anything? Did the camper cool off right away when the furnace shut off? How often did it kick on?



Thanks

 

[dresslered]

I too was going to buy the Lance until I saw a Bigfoot. Main reasons I went with the Bigfoot were:



1. Only camper that I know of that is truely rated to -40 degrees. It has double pane windows, skylights, and polyurethane injected walls. I've heard that they use them on the Alaskan pipeline. This thing is very well insulated minimizing the amount of heating fuel that will be required.



2. Full RV shower is pushed forward so that the dining area has 270-degree views.



3. Aluminum frame as opposed to wood. I have heard too many people getting water damage in the wood frames. Also, the aluminum frame does not require the front stabilizers.



4. Workmanship appeared to be much better on the Bigfoot when comparying both top-of-the-line models.



5. I like the full basement feature.



6. Very spacious sleeping area. You can sit straight up with plenty of head room.





The main drawback that I've found is that they are extremely heavy! Also, regardless of the camper that you choose, tie it down with frame-mounted tie-downs or you will damage the bed and/or camper.





Do a search at HappyCampers web site (http://www.travelbyroad.net/bbs/new.html). These guys seem to be the TDR of the camping world!



Also, check out Iver Duedall's page for some discussions on the Bigfoot. (http://duedall.fit.edu/yellow/)

 

[WyoJim]

Camper cool down

At 20 below the furnace did not have much down time and the camper cooled off pretty quick. The reason I think is because of the single thickness plastic roof vents and and the big dark single thickness what ever on the blunt front.



I can't tell you about cold spots because we were only sleeping in it and when we got up we got dressed and left it.



I can tell you that down to ten above we have stayed in it and traveled with it and experienced no problems. Our previous campers have had cold floors, but not this one with the heated basement.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Thanks Wyojim, I couldn't see how the insulation could be that great with the square nose considering those windows.



Dresslered, that's the exact model I'm leaning towards, what kind of mileage do you get hauling it?



Thanks again guys!

 

[dresslered]

Well my mileage isn't spectacular. I usually get about 11-mpg (65+ mph). With the Bigfoot mounted on a 4x4 3500 it stands at 11 feet tall.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Dresslered, sorry to be such a pain. How much distance is there between the top of the pickup cab and the bottom of the camper? I've often thought that the "pocket" right there on my rig was a major source of drag, holding your hand out the rear slider has about the same amount of wind as sticking your arm out the window. What kind of mileage do you see empty?



Jerry

 

[WyoJim]

Paranoia!!

I put my first camper on a truck in 1969. An 11 foot camper that required stabilizers. It was on a dodge 3/4 ton. I haven't required front stabilizers since.



I had an aluminum framed Holiday Rambler after that and after I sold it the guy that bought it had a wreck. When he went to fix it, the biggest problem was repairing the aluminum frame. I have never had any problems with a wooden frame.



I like the full basement feature on my S&S and I think Lance has it also.



I think the frame mount is probably the best, but in 32 years of camper travel I have yet to hurt the bed on a pickup and I don't have the cross bar in my set up now. Over 50,000 miles on this set up and no bed damage.



My camper weighs over 3000 wet and my truck has the original shocks, no air bags, and no engine brake. The load corners like a Camaro and at 50 thousand miles I still have 50% of the front pads left. Guess it don't agree with you guys that they are wimps when stock.



Any one that would go camping at -40 degrees would have to be a bubble off center.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Jim, the Lance does not have a basement. I own an '01 3500 which I can tell you first hand stunk for hauling my 10. 5' ~3000lb Northland. Granted mine does not have the camper special package on it, which could make a big difference. I installed RS9000's big difference in ride and control, even empty. I also installed airbags which made a huge difference in the way the truck handled, no more rocking back and forth after lane changes or sharp corners etc. I can watch the front of my camper out the windshield bouncing up and down a few inches on less than smooth roads. My girlfriend rode in the bed once and said it was like an amusement park ride. My truck stock would handle the camper fine, but what a diffence with the shocks and airbags, don't knock it till you try it. The biggest problem with the Happijac tiedowns is this: the front of the camper is attached to your bed which moves because it is on rubber mounts to the frame, the rear of the camper is attached to the bumper which is of course attached to the frame, doesn't move. So because the bed WILL twist with that much weight around corners and so on and the bumper won't, the camper has to absorb that twisting.



Bubble off center? I take it you aren't a snowmobiler or other type of winter enthusiest.

 

[WyoJim]

Bubble off center?

I spent my working life in the logging industry working in the woods, and have done extensive snowmobiling in the 70's, but neither at -40 degrees. And altho that remark was not aimed at any one in particular, but rather at a sales pitch to sell more campers, I stand behind it.



I also believe these long overhangs on campers for crew cab trucks have more negatives than positives. Increasing sway and bouncing and deturring any decent fuel mileage. And for what? Just to give a guy a little more room when he has his eyes closed sleeping. With a regular 5 foot overhang, mine don't sway, or bounce and my mileage is pretty good.



The bumper will give, I know, because I have been hit with 50 mile an hour side winds and the bumper was pulled up 3 inches. Thats why I will end up with a frame mount, but I haven't hurt a bed yet.



One more thing, I am not knocking any one's set up. I am defending my set up, which several people continually say is inadequate.

 

[Utah Willie]

Bigfoot vs Lance Campers

I have a Lance 8'6" 3000 Squire ext. cab model that has been on a '96 2500 and my '99 3500 and I've used the bed tie-downs in front and bumper tie-downs in the rear and gone over some fairly rough stuff with no damage to the bed or bumper. The stress of the twisting bed is absorbed not by the bumper (or vice-versa) but by springs inside the tie-downs. As for stabilizers on the overhang down to the hood/firewall, I've never used them nor see the necessity in having them. If I had my"druthers" I'd go right through the bed and onto the frame as I did with my old 10' Travel Queen on my '61 Chevy 3/4 Ton.

 

[dresslered]

Jerry-

I get about 15-mpg normally when running empty. This is achieved on a two-lane mountain commute with a 2000-ft climb and descent each way. When I haul my camper, a good portion of the driving is on the highway. I would imagine that if I dropped the speed down a bit (loaded and unloaded), the mileage would improve. I think that there are several inches between the cab clearance lights and the bottom of the camper. I would imagine that quite a bit of wind does travel through the gap as the back of the Bigfoot gets splattered with bugs by the end of the trip.



One last recommendation is to ask for the three-way refrigerator (12V setting for when you are driving). It seems as if they are installing the 2-way's now and I don't like the idea of driving while on propane.



WyoJim-

I will never go camping in -40 degree weather either. That's not the point! When I am camping out in the cold, the interior heater only comes on a couple of times during the night because it is insulated so nicely. I think that this is a great plus for savings in fuel alone. Additionally, double pane glass is probably not required either. But it is nice to not have windows fog up when I am out in the cold. These are just things that I considered being nice features. I didn't listen to anyone's sales pitch. It was my own research and I have offered a good link so others can do the same.



I'm also very pleased that you have not had any bad luck in damaging your camper and/or bed. The wood framed campers are more forgiving as they flex much more. Bigfoot strongly cautions against using the combination bed and bumper mounting. They state that damage WILL occur. They say if you must tie the camper to the bed, to do so in the rear as well. I have personally received many emails from people that have damaged either their truck bed and/or camper. I have also seen examples personally. Happi-Jak themselves has even decided to come out with their own frame-mounted version. Why then? Again, I’m glad that you're having success with your set-up. I am only offering what I have learned and what the manufactures are saying. I'm running a stock set-up as well but will be upgrading to the RS9000's for added stability.



Utah Willie-

The springs in the tie-downs do not have enough travel to compensate for bed twist. The front tie-downs are only designed to remove road “bounce”. The rears have almost no travel because they are designed to act more like a hinge. Again, the problem noted with the Happi-Jak Tie-down system is more evident with the larger, stiffer campers (especially those with rigid sideing), and for those who drive off-road. Keep watching the welds in the bottom of your bed.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Dresslered, I appreciate all your input! The heater only runs a couple times during the night is exactly what I wanted to hear! Also Bigfoot uses air conditioners rated at almost half the output of the others, I'm sure because of the better insulation. Again, fuel savings (for the generator). From all that I've looked at, it seems the Bigfoot is the best insulated, now it seems to be confirmed. Do you notice the front of the bed area bouncing up and down quite abit while driving down the highway? I saw where you said with the aluminum frame they don't recommend using the stabilizers.



Thanks once again,

Jerry

 

[RobG]

I've had my Lance 1030 for a year, and I will say this:



I WILL NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER OWN ANOTHER LANCE AGAIN.



I WILL NEVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, SAY ANYTHING NICE ABOUT LANCE AGAIN.



Lance has forever made an enemy with me. My 1030 is the biggest piece of crap I have ever seen. They have NO quality control at their assembly plant. To detail all the problems would be a post of monumental proportions, but suffice it to say there isn't a single screw in this entire camper that was put in straight. I've had problems with all of the appliances.



The dealer I bought it from is worthless. Once I made the deal and placed the order, I never again heard from the salesman. There was no followup call after I took delivery. Hell, I had to BEG them to take the time to install my new hitch receiver while I was there getting the camper, while they b!tched and moaned about being busy.



I even wrote to Lance about the problems and asked about upgrading a few things. TWO MONTHS later I got a reply, offering to fix things for me and said they'd do up a quote for the upgrades. I replied and said please send the quote. Never heard back. I waited another two months and wrote again. NEVER HEARD ANOTHER WORD.



So to me, Lance doesn't give a crap about its customers. And I'm telling everybody I know about my experience.



Plus, it's worth noting... even if Lance DID suddenly contact me about it, there's really nothing they can do short of replacing the whole unit. IT REALLY IS THAT BAD. Either that or they'd have to rip the whole thing apart and replace most of the pieces, because once a screw goes in crooked, there's really no "fixing" it.



I will keep thiis POS for a couple more years and at least get my money's worth out of it. Assuming it doesn't fall apart, I'll be checking out Bigfoot and Arctic Fox next time.



Rob

 

[dresslered]

Wheew! Sorry to hear about your problems Rob. I have always thought that the Lance was a very good brand and I really almost bought the 1030 myself.



Jerry-

The front of the camper will bounce. However, by design, they need to flex. The aluminum framed campers are just much stiffer and will move much less than the wood framed campers. As far as I know, there are not any provisions for adding stabilizers as they are not required.



I would suggest that you put frame mounted tie-downs on your truck before you purchase a camper. I like the Tork-lift. From what I have learned, the best combo is the "rigid" Tork-lift mounts used in conjuction with the Happi-Jak spring-loaded turnbuckles. This is what I use and have been very pleased. Before you purchase your camper, insist that you take it for a test drive. Try the curves, the highway, and the bumps. Even take it to the scales like I did before you fork out any money. If your planning on ordering one, at least test drive a comparable one. Good luck!

 

[Powder Extreme]

I will be purchasing the torque lift system this coming week. I'm not sure if I will buy the rear units as drilling into my Titan V will void the warranty. I know I could change to the super hitch, but I've already spent the money for the Titan and I am quite happy with it. I currently have the happijac system the S&S dealer installed (I added the crossbeam later) My turnbuckles are two different lengths, are both spring loaded or should I buy new turnbuckles as well?

 

[dresslered]

The Happi-Jac spring loaded turnbuckles are what I am using (I originally had installed the Happi-Jacs so that I could go pick up my new camper). The big turnbuckles go up front and the smaller ones go in the rear. Tork-lift does make a spring loaded tie-down so be sure and specify the "non-spring loaded" version (nice thing is that they are cheaper). Mine are adjustable as well, but I have been told that they no longer make these. Apparently, they've got the proper angle figured out for the new Rams so it is no longer necessary to have this adjustment.



I really wouldn't be too concerned about loosing a warrantee on a Titan V! The way those things are built there really isn't much that could break. I would be more concerned about attaching to the rear "flimsy" Dodge bumper. But even if you do, at least you are still attached to the frame.



I forgot to mention one other benefit of the Bigfoot over the Lance: you can lower your spare tire without lifting off the camper first. There is one member who will quickly correct me here as he claims that he can still remove the spare with a lance so I will rephrase it to say that "you can easily access your spare without removing the Bigfoot camer. "