Bigfoot vs. Lance Campers

[JohnMcIntyre]

Overgrown Tonka toy

Originally posted by dresslered

Ahhh! Mr. McIntyre finally took the bait!

When are you going to knock off those silly Waag's and send them to me so that you can get some decent tie-downs?



Second, did you ever get the tow hooks (they will fit the "Sport") for pulling out those Ferds stuck in the snow?



P. S. Usually I like to slap on a fresh coat of wax to the undercarriage before I take the pictures but you were rushing me!

... but if I send them to you, does that mean you're going to have to play musical chairs with Torqlift and WAAG, or are you devising some secret mounting system which is mutually compatible with both simultaneously!!, If so, I'm your first customer... . on reflection I'll hang onto them for the time being, ... . go buy you own



... ... my tow hooks are on order from a friend of mine (Hi John!) at Huntington Beach Dodge in California. In the meantime however, I was wondering what the recommendations are for using them with a standard factory auto trans in reverse and then again after the Bill K. 91% makeover . It seems to me that mounting them at the rear and a forward gear selected might be a better deal all round, or am I just being paranoid... . ?



Incidentally I was visiting a friend at his workshop at the weekend and a brand new F150 Lightning was parked outside. You should have seen the look of despair on the owner's face when I pulled up alongside, because under normal circumstances in Europe, he would be considered oversize and not an overgrown Tonka toy



... waxing the undercarriage is so "passé" David; I took the easy route and got the Linex man to detail underneath instead, in anticipation of some harsh winters... .



JMc

 

[dresslered]

Jerry-

I was thinking that if you really didn't want to drill holes in your Titan, you could stick with the rear Happi-Jak bumper mounts (if you trust the flimsey Dodge Bumper). At least you would be frame mounted and that is the important thing.



Mr. McIntyre-

I've always wondered what kind of looks you get while driving that truck with training wheels all over in Europe??? The Metro guys must really #### bricks when they see you coming!



I keep forgetting that you own a slush box. Even with my 6-speed, I would use caution about putting a big load on the tow hooks while in reverse. I'm sure that the tow hooks would take it without a problem, but I think that I would opt for towing the heavy loads in a forward gear as you suggest. I've seen a nifty "hook" that goes in the receiver which would be good for this application. I mainly use mine for propping up fence posts.



It seems that you are one up on me again with your linex'd undercarriage. I had originally looked into "coating" my rockers as well as spraying under the wheel wells, but the job was going to be extremely labor intensive. I figure I will wait until I've properly banged everything up prior to taking these drastic measures.



Have you thought about mounting the front of your Lance directly to the Waag's? I believe that if they can support 500-lbs. of tension, they would be adequate. I'm still trying to figure out a way that I can get a set!

 

[Bill Stockard]

Jerry,



I took my factory hitch off after marking the hole locations and put it in my drill press--much easier. I realize the Titan will be heavier to wrestle around. It's much easier to drill in the press than lying on your back trying to drill with the hot chips falling in your face.



Bill

 

[LMautone]

What about puting the rear mounts inside the tubes of your hitch and holding in place with a pin. ive seen this from other members and some camper dealers are doing it. seems pretty strong.

 

[dresslered]

Excellent mounting method (not sure if you can easily do this with the Titan though). The important thing is to get the front mounts on the frame as well.

 

[Ramrod]

mileage with camper

So sorry it took so long to get back to your question Powder.



In reference to mpg you can re-read my thread with all the information about my trip out to S&S to pick up my camper. It has all the numbers plus wieght.



If you read the thread you will see that I also went with the Tork-Lift frame mounts. I think it was so of the best money spent thru-out the whole purchase. Since my trip back from Kalispell we have used the camper alot. I have driven alot of back country winding roads thru Conn. down thru to NJ. All thru the Poconos. And out to Ohio. Some of this has been with my racecar behind in tow. I really did not even feel her back there. TAKE NOTE of my signature. I have done alot of upgrading to the CTD and the truck to get these numbers that I claim. The tork lifts let me drive pretty normal, compared to driving slow. I can make trips almost as fast as if I were running empty.



I have seen first hand some of the reported damge from the older happijac set up. I did see thier new set up but was still unimpressed when I saw that it still mounted to the bed. I would rather do something right first then have to fix it later, So thats why I opted for the TL's. I have been very happy with them.



As for the insulating of the S&S I would have to say we have been happy with the perfomance of this as well. We opted for the insulated windows option. It was reccomended that we leave them in for the summer and the insulating fot the AC. We have frozen when we used the air. You have to adjust the cooler setting. But the insulating properties seemed to be good. On the nights where I needed heat the thermastat work well. We were never too warm or cold. It was just a matter of using it and finding the right setting. The basement is heated as well so I am thinking about not winterizing our unit. I may just keep it pluged in so that we can use it often during the winter to go skiing. We'll see.



As for the front end being flat? I did not like it at first either. IN A BIG WAY. But guess what? I like it much better now. With the drapes drawn back you get alot more natural light and you have alot more visibilty. You probably don't even loose that much in MPG. You also have alot more usable room. I compare to having a short bed versus a 8 ft. If you have it you use it. So something I did not care for at first has advantages that I did not consider before. So I think for those reasons I think its supperior to others out there with angled from ends.



The S&S also has a long header running along the top wall sides of the campers. This eliminates the need for those pretty front shocks and mounts for supporting overhangs.



All in all pretty happy with our purchase. We looked at everything for a few year until we purchase.



Check out the post I spoke about.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18357

 

[Powder Extreme]

Thanks Ramrod, I've pretty much decided on the Bigfoot, I haven't heard a bad word yet about them and I have a local dealer I've dealt with before just down the road from me. It's been a tough choice between the "big three" I think all of them have their good and bad points.



Dresslered: I'm sure you're right, just drill the hitch and stop whining LOL





Thanks ALL!!!!



Jerry

 

[Cobra]

hey guys



I am hauling a coachmen slidein. I am not too happy with my unit and I am very unhappy with the dealer. I have a frame mount in front and bumper on the rear. I don't have any idea what the brand name is. I thing it is just square stock that the dealer mounted underthe truck. I am asamed to tell you all how much he charged me for the mounting. Just over $500. That included the chains and turn buckles. I live in the east and I have never before heard of the S & S, or the big foot or the fox. These must be from out west. Don't worry, now that I know, I will be looking at all of them the next time.



Oh yeah, my milege is about 12. 5. My unit weighs in at about 10,400

 

[Cobra]

hey guys



I am hauling a coachmen slidein. I am not too happy with my unit and I am very unhappy with the dealer. I have a frame mount in front and bumper on the rear. I don't have any idea what the brand name is. I thing it is just square stock that the dealer mounted underthe truck. I am asamed to tell you all how much he charged me for the mounting. Just over $500. That included the chains and turn buckles. I live in the east and I have never before heard of the S & S, or the big foot or the fox. These must be from out west. Don't worry, now that I know, I will be looking at all of them the next time.



Oh yeah, my milege is about 12. 5. My unit weighs in at about 10,400

 

[dresslered]

Bigfoot is in the North - Canada.

 

[Powder Extreme]

You won't believe this

I was talking to a Lance dealer today whom I've gotten to know pretty well the last year (nice guy, wish he sold Bigfoot). He was telling me that he is actually having problems with the torklift tie downs causing some minor cracking in their campers. I don't get it, and he couldn't see any reason for it either other than the happijac pulls more forward than down?? He also said that Lance is currently not recommending them, people should keep using the happijac with the cross bar support. He totally agrees with me that the torklift system looks and theoretically should be better, but how do you explain the cracking? Maybe just a bad part in the unit? Why would Lance not endorse them? He didn't know either. He's been a dealer for a buncha years and has never once had a problem with a happijac setup except when people didn't use the cross bar. Like I said though, he agrees the torklift should be better.

Now I don't know what to do

Jerry

 

[Ramrod]

Well if your talking about cracking I would have to say from my exp. it would have to be a problem in the construction of the campers. If you saying the Lances are cracking I think its on them. The TL's that I have been using seem to be fine. But the S & S has not shown any side effects of any type of wear around or relateds to the tie down sections. And believe me I have driven this thing hard.

 

[dresslered]

The problem as I see it is that todays campers are much larger and stiffer than the campers of yesterday. Especially when you add rigid siding and aluminum framing. Additionally, the truck beds are not quit a sturdy as they use to. If you go out and measure how much your truck bed can actually move (on the rubber bushings) independantly from the truck frame, you might be very surprised. This movement CANNOT be absorbed by just the Happi-Jak system. The truck bed and the camper will have to give to absorb the flex.



If the camper is tied entirely to the frame, the camper and the bed will track each other. An alternative method would be to mount the camper entirely to the bed and the two will still track each other but you will will experience additional roll. Also, you must adhere to proper mounting procedures. I've heard people say that tighter is better. This is not true! Use the manufacturers recommended instructions. Much of the damage is probably caused by people (themselves) over tightening their campers. Remember, the weight of the camper and its center of gravity resting on a "frictional" surface, is the main component that keeps the camper in the bed. The tie-downs are secondary and mainly remove the road bounce.



Here is a direct quote from a 1999 Bigfoot owners manual:





CAMPER TIE DOWN INSTRUCTIONS



When tying down your Bigfoot camper, remember that all four tie downs must be used.





The recommended ways to secure your camper are as follows:

RECOMMENDED: FRONT - under frame bar REAR - bumper hooks (this is also the frame)



ALTERNATE: Box mount both front and rear. If using this method ensure there is enough clearance at the rear of the truck



REMEMBER: Only use these recommended tie down procedures and NEVER combine methods such as using box mount on front and bumper on rear. This can cause frame damage and surface cracks on the fiberglass.







Just remember, I have both brands of tie-downs on my truck (Happi-Jak and the Tork-lift) so I am free to use either. Just ask me which ones I use.

 

[Powder Extreme]

The Bigfoot dealer (not the local one, 200 miles away) I am buying from said they use the torklifts almost exclusively. BUT, they use the spring loaded torklifts, not the combination. When I asked him about the combination he didn't think it was a good idea. I see that most of you use the combo, why is that better? Using that style, how many turns after the slack in the chain is taken out do you tighten them?



Dresslered, since you have both happijac and torklift on your truck I asume you use the front happijacs and the rear torklifts, that way you don't bend your bumper

 

[dresslered]

Wow! I seem to have confused you completely, Jerry. I TIE MY CAMPER TO THE FRAME USING THE TORK-LIFT TIE-DOWNS AS PER BIGFOOT'S INSTRUCTIONS. Let's see if I can clarify things a bit:



I originally bought the Happi-Jaks tie-downs because the local RV place convinced me that "this is what everyone uses in America. The Canadians only use the Tork-Lifts because they have tougher standards. " The Happi-Jak system includes front bed mounting ears, bed-mounted stabilizer bar, rear bumper mounting brackets, and the spring-loaded turnbuckles. I fell for this sales pitch and after driving the Bigfoot with them for under 100-miles I knew that this method of securing the camper was insufficient. I threw the Happi-Jak stabilizer bar in the workshop and haven't touched it since. The Happi-Jak front bed ears and bumper mounts remain on my truck (because they would leave a hole if I removed them), but I no longer use them.



I then purchase the Tork-Lifts from Hill's Auto & RV (Yakima, WA) as was recommended by another TDR member. They seemed very knowledgeable on the various tie-down methods. They told me that Tork-Lift makes two versions of Tie-downs (a rigid mount and a spring-loaded mount). If you buy the rigid Tork-Lift, you must supply your own spring-loaded turnbuckle (i. e. the Happi-Jak spring-loaded turnbuckle). If you get the Tork-lift spring-loaded mount, you CANNOT use an additional spring-loaded turnbuckle--the spring is built into the tie-down itself. The dealer told me that he felt that Happi-Jaks spring-loaded turnbuckle were superior to Tork-lifts springs and that the best combination was to use Tork-lifts "rigid" tie-downs with Happi-Jak’s spring loaded turnbuckles. He actually recommended the cheaper product as being better. Since I already had the turnbuckles, this was even cheaper.



In summary, the only Happi-Jak items that I use on my truck are the spring-loaded turnbuckles. These are the little spring-loaded dampers, which allows you to tighten down the chain. Everything else is made by Tork-lift and is attached to the frame.



When I tighten my turnbuckles, I take in all of the slack and then tighten an extra 1/4". I then perform several "hard" stop and goes, and recheck all my tensions in case things hadn't quite settled. I tend to recheck quite often during the first part of my trip until I am sure that everything is properly seated.



If you get the spring-loaded Tork-Lifts, then you will not use any additonal dampers (they are built it). You then tighten the system with a "rigid" turnbuckle.

 

[dresslered]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Might be hard to see but this is the general idea:

 

[Powder Extreme]

David, I was kidding about the happijac torklift combo setup. What I do want to know is what makes the happijac springs better than the spring loaded torklift? Do they have more travel, or are they just "easier"?

 

[dresslered]

Wheew, Jerry, jokes on me! I thought that I was loosing my mind!



I honestly can't tell you which type of Tork-lift system is the best. I only have experience with the rigid ones as per a recommendation. I think that you will probably be pleased with either. The important thing is to attach the camper to the frame. Have you checked out http://www.torklift.com/loadit.html? There is a "What People Say" section on the various manufacturers that recommend them. Take it for what it's worth.



I've enclosed a picture of the spring-loaded Tork-lift. Notice the end of the mount contains the damper assembly and a "rigid" turnbuckle is used. The ends of my Tork-lifts are rigid and I use a "spring-loaded" turnbuckle instead. The only comment that I can say is that the Happi-Jak spring-loaded turnbuckles appear to be a little beefier? Again, I'm basing this solely from a picture and a dealer recommendation. Again, I think that you would be pleased with either model.

 

[Powder Extreme]

New Bigfoot on the Way!

Well I ordered a 2002 Bigfoot 3000 C10. 11 with virtually every option. I didn't get it from my local dealer, they were about 2 grand high. The dealer I did buy it from is only 190 miles though, not bad.



I've decided that I will go with the spring loaded torklifts based on the warranty. Bigfoot recommends them and without any Happijac pieces thrown into the mix, I shouldn't have any problems if I do need to use the warranty on the mount or camper. Unless somebody can give me a really good reason not to.



I appreciate everybody's input!!!!

 

[GCuzzy]

Cool Camper

We have had our Lance since 91' and have used it in all types of weather. We did alot of research and found (in CA. ) the Lance was the best value and had the best support. Best of luck. Cuzzy