bio diesel

[Tractorat]

They build a huge bio diesel plant here in Washington State. I just heard on the news that they are selling a lot of it. They're shipping most of it to Europe.



BTW, that plant is subsidized by our tax dollars. I think the guy on TV said it is about $1/gal.



TRat

 

[DBentley]

Makes me crazy to hear stuff like this.

Bio around here is scarce as hens teeth.

Must be a tax revenue issue holding it back ?

 

[JCasper]

That is total BS. I am getting sick and tired of hearing all of the stupid things are government does.





@%^#^^

 

[jandtjil]

If so, I wonder if it is because the Petro industry that controls most of the fuel stations will not provide a fuel island and storage for the bio? Basically shutting it out of the major market.

JJ

 

[Tractorat]

No, they were interviewiing the folks that manage the bio diesel plant and they said that there is a big market in europe and that they can sell a lot of bio diesel there.

 

[Jim Smith]

Is there any printed documentation to verify this subject at the plant or city?

 

[Tractorat]

Dont know. I saw it on the tv news on one of the Seattle stations.

 

[Tractorat]

I think its called Imperium Renewables in or near Aberdeen Washington

 

[bnbrown]

we can get bio at our local farmer co-op, but today i nearly dropped the pump handle, it was 20 cents/gal higher than the dino diesel. Asked why it was up so high (its only B20) they said $24 soy beans... I shoulda been growing soy... sheesh

 

[DonTX]

You must have heard wrong. To take $4 a gallon diesel, mix a little veggie oil with it comes out to far more than any $1 a gallon, probably that was the cost to convert it from straight diesel.

I am holding out for SVO, or straight vegetable oil to become available. Cottonseed is quite available here, makes wonderful fuel for our trucks, and is almost a waste product.

By the way, diesel fuel at a station 8 miles from me has diesel at $2. 22 a gallon

 

[Tractorat]

The bio that they sell here in Bothell at the Shell station from the bio refinery in Aberdeen is B99. I havent priced it lately, but I know its more that petro diesel, and that is about $4. 09. At least it was yesterday

 

[LCink]

There are many types of fuel that get labeled as biodiesel. There is waste vegetable oil, straight vegetable oil, soybean oil, canola oil, etc. We have two biodiesel plants near us and as far as I can tell, neither is running. They were built when soybean oil was selling for $. 24/lb. and operation was profitable. Now, soybean oil is over $. 70 /lb and to make money soybiodiesel would have to be somewhere near $6. 50+/gallon (this would include govt subsidy). I think this is why it is being shipped to europe, where diesel is in more demand and higher priced-because that is where they can make profit. This is also why biodiesel is higher priced - the inputs are higher priced. A gallon of soy oil yields roughly a gallon of biodiesel. A bushel of corn yields 3 gallons of ethanol. Bottom line is this-for biodiesel to become an option there needs to be a cheaper alternative to soyoil, or the price of soyoil needs to drop, or diesel needs to rise (I am pretty sure that none of us wants that!)

 

[DonTX]

Lets not muddy the waters any more than they already are. Biodiesel is petrodiesel with some vegtable oil mixed in, period. SVO or Straight Vegetable Oil is just what the name implies. WVO or Waste Vegtable Oil is the oil from McDonalds french fryers and restaurants. SVO and WVO are not biodiesel fuel. They nor the terms are interchangeable and are separate subjects. Diesels were originally invented to burn vegetable oil, and then were later adapted to use dinosaur fuels. Biodiesel has never seemed to me to be any sort of an answer to anything.

There are many types of fuel that get labeled as biodiesel. There is waste vegetable oil, straight vegetable oil, soybean oil, canola oil, etc. We have two biodiesel plants near us and as far as I can tell, neither is running. They were built when soybean oil was selling for $. 24/lb. and operation was profitable. Now, soybean oil is over $. 70 /lb and to make money soybiodiesel would have to be somewhere near $6. 50+/gallon (this would include govt subsidy). I think this is why it is being shipped to europe, where diesel is in more demand and higher priced-because that is where they can make profit. This is also why biodiesel is higher priced - the inputs are higher priced. A gallon of soy oil yields roughly a gallon of biodiesel. A bushel of corn yields 3 gallons of ethanol. Bottom line is this-for biodiesel to become an option there needs to be a cheaper alternative to soyoil, or the price of soyoil needs to drop, or diesel needs to rise (I am pretty sure that none of us wants that!)

 

[Tractorat]

They're making B99 bio with soy in Aberdeen. They're selling some here (I dont know how much of the total lot is sold locally). But I think the great majority of is is going to Europe according to the story on TV.



Yes, it is being subsidized by our tax dollars. And, yes. The farmers are moving to growing soy thus driving up food prices (a lot) because their isnt as much food crop being produced (thus reducing the amount of food crop available, and driving up the cost of what is available)

 

[JimB1]

Bio-diesel is a refined trade name product meeting a stringent standard, ASTM D6751.



B100 would be 100% bio-diesel and Bxxx's less than 100 would then be a ratio of petroleum.



B20, 20% bio-diesel, 80% petro.



All fats, cooking & vegtable oils can be refined into B100.



Seed base stocks are currently most popular for refining into bio-diesel but do compete with food supply.



Algae as a base stock is several orders of magnitude greater in its potential for supporting refining capacity and there's a lot of research and pilot test facilities working out the how-to's and best methods.



Oil companies, Universities, Venture Capitalist's are all getting into this.



Hopefully 10 years from now algae methodologies will work well enough that seed base stocks return to the bread basket.

 

[DonTX]

Good post, thanks.

Not all seed based stock is in the food chain. Caster beans, cottonseeds are but two, there are many more. As soon as there becomes a stable market for these, I think we will se the reduction in food price grains and the more common use of them being grown for fuel, which don't even require any expensive refining to be used in diesels. .

Bio-diesel is a refined trade name product meeting a stringent standard, ASTM D6751.



B100 would be 100% bio-diesel and Bxxx's less than 100 would then be a ratio of petroleum.



B20, 20% bio-diesel, 80% petro.



All fats, cooking & vegtable oils can be refined into B100.



Seed base stocks are currently most popular for refining into bio-diesel but do compete with food supply.



Algae as a base stock is several orders of magnitude greater in its potential for supporting refining capacity and there's a lot of research and pilot test facilities working out the how-to's and best methods.



Oil companies, Universities, Venture Capitalist's are all getting into this.



Hopefully 10 years from now algae methodologies will work well enough that seed base stocks return to the bread basket.

 

[JTroiano]

I'm just frustrated. I drive on highway 30 into portland every day and watch the diesel prices go up at the shell station which also sells bio diesel. The bio always goes up in relation to the reg. diesel. So in my mind its greed. I have a nice truck that just sits in the driveway because its to expensive to drive.



Just venting, I have had a boat for the last 10 years and had to sell because of starting a new business and am now at the point that I can buy another, but with gas prices going up we will have to row out and anchor up.



Sorry for the poor attitude.



Jon T

 

[cj hall]

fuel price ?

Hello Jon T

Sorry to here that truck your just sits in your drive way.

I would love to put some fuel in it and drive some thing like that

but it would never see biodiesel or diesel fuel.



Some day the price will come down

This should be added to the three lies all men will tell to get what they want.



sorry this will not happen.

cj hall