Black oil on a 2004.5

[6 2 Carl]

Has anyone done an oil analysis on their 600? I am concerned with my soot levels in my truck, since the oil turns black almost immediately after an oil change. I took an oil sample from my 2004. 5 Dodge Cummins, with a Frantz By-pass filter, Stratapore filter and PetroCanada Duron 15W40 oil. The truck has 16335km on it, with 4357km on the oil. The TP was changed after the sample was taken.



The oil analysis was a Caterpillar SOS kit, and the analysis was bought from Kramer Cat, in Saskatoon, SK. The kit cost $16. 95



Wear Elements



Cu 2

Fe 15

Cr 0

Pb 0

AL 4

Si 7

Mo 2

Na 1

Sn 1

Zn 1380

Ca 3432

Mg 16

P 1227



Oil Condition/Contaminants

Water N

Fuel N

Glycol N

Soot 43% (Reported in terms of % max allowable)

Oxi 29%

Nit 28%

Sul 24%

Vis 14. 5



I tried to phone Kramer and find out what they consider the max allowable levels for soot, oxidation, sulfation and nitration, but I was unable to get any answers, since the guy who interprets the analysis is on holidays until Monday. The soot level concerns me. Looks like I am not going to make it to 12000 km before the soot maxes out, even with the bypass installed.



I think there is something wrong with the injection system on this truck. A buddy of mine has a 2003 Dodge and he gets significantly better mileage, and his oil doesn’t get dark at all, even after 12000 km.





Carl

 

[Chipstien]

I agree that the soot levels look bad. However the 04. 5 in general are getting worse mileage because of that extra injection process for emmisions.

 

[KBertetto]

My oil turns black in no time in my 600 also, but that seems to be the norm for this motor according to most on the TDR. This subject was brought up before but I was unable to locate it. I think it's a characteristic of the CI rated oils to retain the soot from emissions regulated diesels. My friends 6. 0 Powerscrote that has EGR and a CAT turns the oil black right away also (although on the Furd it could be from fuel dilution :-laf ). He's only getting 17 mpg on the highway. I don't want to start another mileage thread here as it's been beaten to death already, but what is your truck getting for mileage? Mine gets as high as 23 if I keep at 60mph or below. Alot of 600's are getting between 15-18 on the highway, I don't know why mine does better, I wish I knew because I would give everyone the secret. I'm just about to turn 10k miles with about 7k towing 12k 5er at highway speeds and pulling extremely steep grades. That may have something to do with it... I'm not sure

 

[6 2 Carl]

The best I have gotten with this truck is 17. 5 mpg driving @ 70 mph with a tail wind. Normal highway mileage is around 16mpg @ 70 mph I have seen as high as 18 mpg (which usually reads 1mph low) on the overhead @ 60 mph.



If our trucks had EGR I could understand high soot levels in the oil, but our trucks don't so I think the soot levels should be more reasonable. My old 6. 2L didn't blacken the oil as fast as my new 600.



I will take another analysis at 12,000km and maybe disconnect the bypass for a while. If the soot levels are anywhere near the limits for a CI-4 oil, I think that would prove that there is something wrong with my truck.

 

[CAgnoli]

another mileage thread....

B&H, I see similar results. If I set the cruise control for 60MPH I can repeatedly get 23-24mpg. My problem is I've been conditioned to drive 75MPH, which nets about 16-17. I've comprimised at 70MPH and an average of 18 and change.



I don't think that you and I have special trucks, I just think the stretch of road may have something to do with it as well.



I drive 97 miles one way to work, 26 miles is on two lane road, the balance on the expressway, and I only have to stop the truck three times if ALL if the lights turn red. It's incredibly flat on the highway, and 60mph is the sweet spot for mileage. I will admit, it's kind of refreshing to watch the computer go past 20mpg all the way up to my record high of 24. 6. Of course, just a few triple digit passes will signifagantly skew that number



Chris

 

[CBrittan]

Black Oil

Just changed my oil yesterday for the first time with 3000 miles (5k kliks). In just 100 miles today it is already black. I am using Shell Rotella T which I have more than a million klicks of experience with in my Detroit 12. 7 ltr. By the way, fresh oil turns black real fast in it too.



It is my opinion (humble of course) that the new oil specs just out last year hold much larger amounts of soot than the previous versions. In fact, engine oil refiners were forced by engine builders to create a new oil just for the new heavy duty diesel engines that entered the market last October. So I am thinking that black oil is just fine. I would be concerned if it did not blacken. Soot is black, and soot held in suspension is the oil certainly will turn it black quickly.



As for mileage I am getting as low as 13, and as high as just over 18. My 5th wheel weighs about 17000 pounds and a recent 200 mile trip showed just over 12. I know from experience with my bigtruck that speed, idle time, ambient air temp, wind, tire wear and correct pressure (mileage improves as tires wear), load and pavement surface have a lot to do with economy. It took almost 100K miles to get the best economy from my Detroit series 60 engine. So I would reasonably expect that the best economy from my new CTD600 is still miles down the road.



As we hear from time to time, if we can afford to buy it, we can afford to fuel it!

 

[KBertetto]

Carl,

You pose a good point, I'm very interested in your oil analysis at 12,000km with the bypass disconnected. I agree that could very well prove there is something messed up somewhere on your pickup, but your guess is as good as mine as to what it could be.



CAgnoli,

I agree 100% that the sweet spot for mileage is 60 mph, and the stretch of road I achieve the 23mpg on is pretty flat. I make a 190 mile round trip to my favorite fishing spot up here in Alaska (I'm not telling where) it's a pleasant 2 lane road, perfect for cruising along at 55-60 mph. For that reason I also agree that the stretch of road has alot to do with our mileage figures. The triple digit passes will definitely throw off the figure :-laf

 

[roperteacher]

My oil was very dark/black when I first changed it with 3,000 on it. Since then it gets darker, but no where near black. You can EASILY read the dip stick when checking the oil. I change mine every 3,000 regardless. Someone said on another thread about the pilot injection having to do with it?? Oo.

 

[JJW_ND]

Don't go by color.....

I had Cat test my oil the first 50K miles or so. My Soot values were in the mid to upper teens which I would guess translates to 0. 1%. The value CAT uses is not on the same scale. I doudt your Soot values are anything to worry about.



I have ran several 24K oil change intervals and have got soot to 0. 4%. You have not seen black oil until it gets 12K or more miles on the oil. With the older 2 gen engines I believe the abnormal flag value for soot (not on the CAT scale) is 1. 5%. I believe this increased to 3%.



Nothing wrong with CAT labs. If soot is something you really need piece of mind with, run a sample through another lab (CTC, Blackstone, Oil Analyizers).



Lots of black smoke out the tailpipe is usually a prerequisite to elevated soot levels. If you're stock, I doudt you can make much if any black smoke.



jjw

ND