Black oil

[MOWPAR]

I've had my 06 since Memorial weekend and I really like it. The question I have is why the oil comes out so black? I just did my 2nd change yesterday (8000 miles, mostly highway) and when I put the oil in it is black on the stick right away. It was like this on the first change too. I use Rotella T and never had this issue with my 01. When I change oil on the 01 it would come out looking about the way it looked going in, this stuff is coming out like it has a zillion miles on it.

Is it the higher operating temps?

Jim

 

[amsoilman]

I've had my 06 since Memorial weekend and I really like it. The question I have is why the oil comes out so black? I just did my 2nd change yesterday (8000 miles, mostly highway) and when I put the oil in it is black on the stick right away. It was like this on the first change too. I use Rotella T and never had this issue with my 01. When I change oil on the 01 it would come out looking about the way it looked going in, this stuff is coming out like it has a zillion miles on it.

Is it the higher operating temps?

Jim

Your truck is MUCH different than your '01, and the color of the oil will turn black much sooner than the '01 did. Black oil is not indicative of its condition!



If you are concerned, get an oil analysis and put your mind at ease!



Best regards,



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[MMerlino]

I also own a 2006 and had a previous 2000 CTD. As I often tow about 13,000 lb 5wt I choose to regularly change the oil in my 2000 at approximately every 3,000 - 3,500 miles (oil is much cheaper than engine work). Like you I was very concerned with the instant “black oil” of my 2006. I have taken it back to the dealer three separate times and made written complaints of the black oil each time. The Five Star dealership has assured me each time there is nothing wrong. However, I will continue to always write it up whenever I take it in to them. I figure if anything were to go wrong due to abrasive oil I should be covered with an “I previously told you so. ”



With that said I have tried to research the TDR forms and see we are not alone - black oil is prevalent with the 3rd generation CTD. I found a great thread in the TDR concerning bypass Frantz oil filters titled Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter (https://www.turbodieselregister.com...my-frantz-toilet-paper-bypass-oil-filter.html). I ordered and installed one but did not achieve the results that the author did. It did help somewhat but to me the oil is still unacceptably black within 50 miles of an oil change.



It is my understanding that our 3rd generation engines generate this black oil due to upgraded emission parameters in the ECM. To counteract this I ordered a SMARTY and currently running it on level one (with timing) in hopes that the programmer will rectify whatever Dodge has incorporated into the ECM that is causing the black oil. As I have only operated the truck with the SMARTY for about 150 miles it is still too early to tell if it will help. Being as candid as I can be I have to admit that I do have concerns that this might actually hurt the situation more than help as the SMARTY certainly improves throttle response (even on the lowest 30 HP setting) but will cause much more black exhaust smoke. In my humble opinion I would deduce that excessive black smoke would equate to unburned fuel and more soot which is the original cause of the black oil.



Let me know if you find a solution - it the SMARTY does improve the black oil I will respond to this thread at that time.

 

[amsoilman]

I also own a 2006 and had a previous 2000 CTD. As I often tow about 13,000 lb 5wt I choose to regularly change the oil in my 2000 at approximately every 3,000 - 3,500 miles (oil is much cheaper than engine work). Like you I was very concerned with the instant “black oil” of my 2006. I have taken it back to the dealer three separate times and made written complaints of the black oil each time. The Five Star dealership has assured me each time there is nothing wrong. However, I will continue to always write it up whenever I take it in to them. I figure if anything were to go wrong due to abrasive oil I should be covered with an “I previously told you so. ”



With that said I have tried to research the TDR forms and see we are not alone - black oil is prevalent with the 3rd generation CTD. I found a great thread in the TDR concerning bypass Frantz oil filters titled Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter (https://www.turbodieselregister.com...my-frantz-toilet-paper-bypass-oil-filter.html). I ordered and installed one but did not achieve the results that the author did. It did help somewhat but to me the oil is still unacceptably black within 50 miles of an oil change.



It is my understanding that our 3rd generation engines generate this black oil due to upgraded emission parameters in the ECM. To counteract this I ordered a SMARTY and currently running it on level one (with timing) in hopes that the programmer will rectify whatever Dodge has incorporated into the ECM that is causing the black oil. As I have only operated the truck with the SMARTY for about 150 miles it is still too early to tell if it will help. Being as candid as I can be I have to admit that I do have concerns that this might actually hurt the situation more than help as the SMARTY certainly improves throttle response (even on the lowest 30 HP setting) but will cause much more black exhaust smoke. In my humble opinion I would deduce that excessive black smoke would equate to unburned fuel and more soot which is the original cause of the black oil.



Let me know if you find a solution - it the SMARTY does improve the black oil I will respond to this thread at that time.

As I told MOWPAR, the COLOR of oil doesn't necessarily indicate if it is good oil! I can remeber many years back when I could change oil in my Diesel Powered Tracktor, and the oil would imediately turn "BLACK" as soon as it was started! Did that mean I needed to change it again? NO! As said before, if you really want to see if the oil is OK, spend a few dollars and get an oil analysis! I do it every 10,000 miles on my own truck, and yes, the oil is black, but it is still good oil! It does have 60K on it as well!



Wayne

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

cj Hall has a early '04 and '05 trucks and samples oil on both. The '05 soots oil up dramatically faster than the '04. As an example after about 5000 miles the '04 soot/solids was 13ppm but on the 05 it was 158 . . . more than 10 times more soot: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/1653061-post193.html

 

[JBee]

What size of a molecule do you need to be concerned about that could cause excessive engine wear? You figure our oil filters are good to filter out the large damaging particulates and lets smaller pass <10um I'm guessing. I use a heavy duty filter magnet along with a good filter (Donaldson/WIX) and I have a extra sense of re-assurance. I would assume there are some new diesel owners that are applying gas engine practices along with their diesel trucks... you have to leave those behind is what I've found since I too was meticulous about my oil condition and replacement with my previous gas vehicles. It just doesn't matter what oil you use, it's a diesel characteristic you get used to.

 

[steved]

What size of a molecule do you need to be concerned about that could cause excessive engine wear? You figure our oil filters are good to filter out the large damaging particulates and lets smaller pass <10um I'm guessing. I use a heavy duty filter magnet along with a good filter (Donaldson/WIX) and I have a extra sense of re-assurance. I would assume there are some new diesel owners that are applying gas engine practices along with their diesel trucks... you have to leave those behind is what I've found since I too was meticulous about my oil condition and replacement with my previous gas vehicles. It just doesn't matter what oil you use, it's a diesel characteristic you get used to.

Most people think 2 micron is the magic number... as for your magnet, it won't catch soot which is an unburnt hydrocarbon. That is the reason some of us use bypass filters...



As for the original question... the reason the oil gets black is due to the 3rd injection event, which happens when the exhaust valve is open, that is used to "burn" excess emissions up in the cat converter...



steved

 

[cclark746]

nearly every oil has detergent in it now the color will change almost as fast as you can put it in. when it gets dark it is a sign that the oil is working and the detergent is scrubbing your engine clean.

 

[amsoilman]

What size of a molecule do you need to be concerned about that could cause excessive engine wear? You figure our oil filters are good to filter out the large damaging particulates and lets smaller pass <10um I'm guessing. I use a heavy duty filter magnet along with a good filter (Donaldson/WIX) and I have a extra sense of re-assurance. I would assume there are some new diesel owners that are applying gas engine practices along with their diesel trucks... you have to leave those behind is what I've found since I too was meticulous about my oil condition and replacement with my previous gas vehicles. It just doesn't matter what oil you use, it's a diesel characteristic you get used to.

From the book "How to Select a Motor Oil for Your Car or Truck":



Sooner or later, wear from abrasive particles and deposits from carbon and oxide insolubles will interfere with efficient combustion in an engine. Valve train wear (cams, valve guides, etc. ) can impact timing and valve movement. Wear of rings, pistons and cylinder walls influences volumetric compression efficiency and combustion blow-by resulting in power loss. Particle-induced wear is greatest when the particle sizes are in the same range as the oil film thickness.

For diesel and gasoline engines, there is a surprising number of laboratory and field studies that report the need to control particles below 10 microns. One such study by General Motors concluded that, "controlling particles in the 3 micron to 10 micron range had the greatest impact on wear rates and that engine wear rates correlated directly to the dust concentration levels in the sump. "



Wayne

 

[jjack]

I also own a 2006 and had a previous 2000 CTD. As I often tow about 13,000 lb 5wt I choose to regularly change the oil in my 2000 at approximately every 3,000 – 3,500 miles (oil is much cheaper than engine work). Like you I was very concerned with the instant “black oil” of my 2006. I have taken it back to the dealer three separate times and made written complaints of the black oil each time. The Five Star dealership has assured me each time there is nothing wrong. However, I will continue to always write it up whenever I take it in to them. I figure if anything were to go wrong due to abrasive oil I should be covered with an “I previously told you so. ”



With that said I have tried to research the TDR forms and see we are not alone – black oil is prevalent with the 3rd generation CTD. I found a great thread in the TDR concerning bypass Frantz oil filters titled Anatomy of a Frantz toilet paper bypass oil filter (https://www.turbodieselregister.com...my-frantz-toilet-paper-bypass-oil-filter.html). I ordered and installed one but did not achieve the results that the author did. It did help somewhat but to me the oil is still unacceptably black within 50 miles of an oil change.



It is my understanding that our 3rd generation engines generate this black oil due to upgraded emission parameters in the ECM. To counteract this I ordered a SMARTY and currently running it on level one (with timing) in hopes that the programmer will rectify whatever Dodge has incorporated into the ECM that is causing the black oil. As I have only operated the truck with the SMARTY for about 150 miles it is still too early to tell if it will help. Being as candid as I can be I have to admit that I do have concerns that this might actually hurt the situation more than help as the SMARTY certainly improves throttle response (even on the lowest 30 HP setting) but will cause much more black exhaust smoke. In my humble opinion I would deduce that excessive black smoke would equate to unburned fuel and more soot which is the original cause of the black oil.



Let me know if you find a solution – it the SMARTY does improve the black oil I will respond to this thread at that time.

I hope you bought your Smarty for the power and not because of black oil. That smoke you see rolling out your tailpipe since you downloaded the program is further adding to your problem or should I say concern because ther really is no problem per say. I have been running Smarty for over 50,000 miles total on 2 trucks and I see a direct and distinct increase in soot levels (per lab analysis) when I run Smarty. I sample my oil every 5000 miles change filters at 10000 (i run a bypass) and drain at 20000. I have black oil but the lab tells me it is OK and I can see that myself from the report they send me.

 

[Heavyweight]

No worries with black oil... . If you are worried, change every 7,500 miles... Past that, DO not worry.

 

[Axion]

I would agree with what everyone here is saying. Black does not mean worn out. I get the oil analysis done to make sure.



I added a Frantz just for peace of mind but did not get "golden oil" either. To be honest, my oil analysis results didn't change much after the install of the Frantz. Starting with my next oil change I will be switching to the "premium" Fleetguard filters (LF16035) Cummins sells for our engines, rather than whatever the Dodge dealers put on. Not much else I can do to make sure the oil can do its job.



Would be nice to have golden oil but the numbers do not lie. Enjoy the engine and the truck. I know I do!

 

[MOWPAR]

Sounds like there is not much need to worry about it, also sounds like I am not alone. Just a different animal from my 01, kind of what I figured.



Thanks for the replies.



Jim

 

[Paladin1911]

My '03 SO stays honey color til 7500 mi when I change it. Always thought that was pretty cool. Every other diesel I've seen had black oil, regardless of miles on it.

 

[DonFitzwater]

MMERLINO, it's too bad your dealer doesn't know enough to explain to you the 3rd injection event as I think this would put your mind at ease regarding your "perceived" problem with the black oil. It's the nature of the beast and you are most likely anticipating a problem that will never materialize.